***Official*** India's Tour of Australia 2020/21 - General discussion

[Daemon]

What would Wagner do for the remaining 4 balls every over after he's bowled two bouncers first up?

 

[stephen]

What would Wagner do for the remaining 4 balls every over after he's bowled two bouncers first up?

Chest high bouncers that randomly take wickets.

 

[aussie tragic]

So with Stoinis injured, do you pick Henriques or Green? Or think we have enough batsmen and go for the extra bowler that can bat, Abbott or Agar?

 

[gabbadan]

Commentary especially Mark Waugh plugged for Green.
Said he had started bowling again which means he thinks they need an allrounder.
You could pick Green and rely on bits and pieces to make up the ten overs but I think Abbott will get the nod sadly.

 

[Nintendo]

Yeah no they definitely should not pick Abbott. An Abbott/Agar at 7 is way too long a tail, and the current team setup of Maxwell+Allrounder fill in 10+4 main bowlers is working brilliantly.

 

[Nintendo]

Also how good has zampa been recently? Swear he's been taking a few wickets a game every game since the wc ended.

 

[Spikey]

they should pick the bowler but they won't because moar batting

 

[Spikey]

since 2019, maxwell and stoinis ie the 5th bowlers, have bowled 250 overs for 20 wickets at an economy rate of basically 6 an over

this is, to be clear, not good

 

[Dan]

Factor in your previous discovery that the Australian ODI #7 faces an average of, what, 12 balls per dig, and you’d think the focus would be on more balanced or bowling-centric ARs than #batdeep

 

[Nintendo]

since 2019, maxwell and stoinis ie the 5th bowlers, have bowled 250 overs for 20 wickets at an economy rate of basically 6 an over

this is, to be clear, not good

And that's why I said you don't play stoinis in that team setup?? You can only get away with Maxwell at 7 and bowling overs if your other allrounder is someone like green/marsh who are genuine allrounder's, not a borderline part timer like stoinis.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Also how good has zampa been recently? Swear he's been taking a few wickets a game every game since the wc ended.

of his 4 wickets this game, 3 were caught in the deep and the other was a full toss shelled to cover

but yeah he seems to get results

since 2019, maxwell and stoinis ie the 5th bowlers, have bowled 250 overs for 20 wickets at an economy rate of basically 6 an over

this is, to be clear, not good

It's not like that's terrible for your 5th bowler at all

 

[Spikey]

there's no reason to believe green is a genuine all-rounder option in ODI cricket, given we have barely any exposed bowling form in limited overs cricket (he's bowled 274 deliveries in ODers and 12 deliveries in T20)

5 carey
6 maxwell
7 abbott/agar

is a far more interesting thing to do because determining whether carey is good enough to bat at 5 or 6 should be one of Australia's highest priorities, as that then gives them much more flexibility with what to do at 7.

green can wait. but they won't. he'll play.

Factor in your previous discovery that the Australian ODI #7 faces an average of, what, 12 balls per dig, and you’d think the focus would be on more balanced or bowling-centric ARs than #batdeep

12 is the number for T20s

since 2019, the number is either 27 or 24, depending if you do the average based on balls faced by no. 7 divided by match or by innings, as 4 innings did not use the number 7. this, however, has coincided with basically some of the best results we've ever seen from our number 7s ie carey's WC, Maxwell's ton, etc, so we're averaging 40 (a ton of not outs) at a strike rate of over 100 from our number 7, which is really amazing...but we're still seeing games where the number 7 is not required before the 45th over, and even at all, so we're also kind of wasting them. (all this is why figuring out if Carey can stick at 5 or 6 is important to know)

and of course, the gun performance at number 7 has all but been cancelled out by Stoinis putting in some of the worst performances by a number 5 and number 6 in that same period (average of 22 odd at a strike-rate of 82 odd - shout out to Charles Amini from Papua New Guinea who is right on his tail) and Maxwell sucking in the 2019 period too

if they pick Green, it won't be as bad as Stoinis' recall to the OD team, and frankly I think someone like a Forkers Faulkner would fit into this team at 7 much better than Abbott/Agar, and much better than he did in the 2015 WC team, but for now, moar bowling

Mitchell Marsh is a whole other issue. he's better than Stoinis, as plenty said before the last WC and it was a disgrace he wasn't picked, but I'm not sure about two batting all-rounders, when Maxwell is one of them and his bowling results have been horrid for a long time now

 

[Spikey]

It's not like that's terrible for your 5th bowler at all

but it's not a test match. your 5th bowler is required to be used for, let's say, 7 overs (factoring in the innings possible closing early, and then captains doing weird bowling match-ups which cuts into the 5th bowler's allocation). it's a heavily used role in every game! why do we just accept this under-performance and then discuss whether Cummins or Starc should bat at 8.

 

[Nintendo]

there's no reason to believe green is a genuine all-rounder option in ODI cricket, given we have barely any exposed bowling form in limited overs cricket (he's bowled 274 deliveries in ODers and 12 deliveries in T20)

5 carey
6 maxwell
7 abbott/agar

is a far more interesting thing to do because determining whether carey is good enough to bat at 5 or 6 should be one of Australia's highest priorities, as that then gives them much more flexibility with what to do at 7.

green can wait. but they won't. he'll play.




12 is the number for T20s

since 2019, the number is either 27 or 24, depending if you do the average based on balls faced by no. 7 divided by match or by innings, as 4 innings did not use the number 7. this, however, has coincided with basically some of the best results we've ever seen from our number 7s ie carey's WC, Maxwell's ton, etc, so we're averaging 40 (a ton of not outs) at a strike rate of over 100 from our number 7, which is really amazing...but we're still seeing games where the number 7 is not required before the 45th over, and even at all, so we're also kind of wasting them. (all this is why figuring out if Carey can stick at 5 or 6 is important to know)

and of course, the gun performance at number 7 has all but been cancelled out by Stoinis putting in some of the worst performances by a number 5 and number 6 in that same period (average of 22 odd at a strike-rate of 82 odd - shout out to Charles Amini from Papua New Guinea who is right on his tail) and Maxwell sucking in the 2019 period too

if they pick Green, it won't be as bad as Stoinis' recall to the OD team, and frankly I think someone like a Forkers Faulkner would fit into this team at 7 much better than Abbott/Agar, and much better than he did in the 2015 WC team, but for now, moar bowling

Mitchell Marsh is a whole other issue. he's better than Stoinis, as plenty said before the last WC and it was a disgrace he wasn't picked, but I'm not sure about two batting all-rounders when Maxwell is one of them and his bowling results have been horrid for a long time now

As someone who has watched green since he got his Australia u19 calls up vs Pakistan a few years back I can tell you that he is a genuine allrounder option in white ball, he has a good yorker and slower ball and a deceptive bouncer with the height and pace to use it effectively.

Whether he's at his best right now coming back from an injury is a different question, but when you look at the other options in the squad/in Australia I can say with 100% confidence that he is our best option as a limited-overs allrounder behind marsh even when he's not at 100%, which based on the bit he bowled in the shield (small sample size tbh) he looks like he's back near 100%.

 

[Prince EWS]

there's no reason to believe green is a genuine all-rounder option in ODI cricket, given we have barely any exposed bowling form in limited overs cricket (he's bowled 274 deliveries in ODers and 12 deliveries in T20)

5 carey
6 maxwell
7 abbott/agar

is a far more interesting thing to do because determining whether carey is good enough to bat at 5 or 6 should be one of Australia's highest priorities, as that then gives them much more flexibility with what to do at 7.

green can wait. but they won't. he'll play.




12 is the number for T20s

since 2019, the number is either 27 or 24, depending if you do the average based on balls faced by no. 7 divided by match or by innings, as 4 innings did not use the number 7. this, however, has coincided with basically some of the best results we've ever seen from our number 7s ie carey's WC, Maxwell's ton, etc, so we're averaging 40 (a ton of not outs) at a strike rate of over 100 from our number 7, which is really amazing...but we're still seeing games where the number 7 is not required before the 45th over, and even at all, so we're also kind of wasting them. (all this is why figuring out if Carey can stick at 5 or 6 is important to know)

and of course, the gun performance at number 7 has all but been cancelled out by Stoinis putting in some of the worst performances by a number 5 and number 6 in that same period (average of 22 odd at a strike-rate of 82 odd - shout out to Charles Amini from Papua New Guinea who is right on his tail) and Maxwell sucking in the 2019 period too

if they pick Green, it won't be as bad as Stoinis' recall to the OD team, and frankly I think someone like a Forkers Faulkner would fit into this team at 7 much better than Abbott/Agar, and much better than he did in the 2015 WC team, but for now, moar bowling

Mitchell Marsh is a whole other issue. he's better than Stoinis, as plenty said before the last WC and it was a disgrace he wasn't picked, but I'm not sure about two batting all-rounders, when Maxwell is one of them and his bowling results have been horrid for a long time now

I'd pick Green but not necessarily because I think he's a ready-made white ball superstar. Abbott is clearly a better (or at least more accomplished) white ball cricketer at the moment, and we have basically no evidence to suggest even Green's batting would be more useful than Abbott's in the role he'd be picked in (ie. bat #7 and slap dingers in the last 5 overs) given how he's performed with the bat when given this role for WA and the Scorchers so far. However, with no Shield cricket on at the moment I think it's a perfectly good opportunity to give Green some experience against international standard opposition.

At full strength I'm essentially thinking Abbott and Mitch Marsh compete for a spot based on balance requirements (ie. how often #7 is getting a hit, how putrid Maxwell's bowling is), but I don't think figuring out the ideal full strength ODI team is really the focus at the moment.

 

[Spikey]

I'd be surprised if Green was used at 7. Certainly my thinking is that he'd be above Carey in the order.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd be surprised if Green was used at 7. Certainly my thinking is that he'd be above Carey in the order.

I'd bat him at 5 if I played him (unless there was a massive top order partnership and Maxwell had to be promoted), but I can definitely see him ending up at 7. I was mainly thinking it'd be good for him to have a few overs against good batsmen in a game situation tbh. The demands of his batting in an ODI no matter where he bats in the lower middle order are probably going to be too differently to anything applicable to Tests to be particularly useful.

If they picked Abbott I definitely wouldn't be mad though. I think there's a chance he may actually be in the 'best eleven' right now, particularly at home. Maybe they'll rest one of the quicks and play both of them.

 

[Shady Slim]

i swear that zampa is real unimpressive but keeps getting bucketloads of wickets, and not all of them are as garbage as they were last night surely lol

like i don't think he's bad, i certainly do think he's not great - but he's still the best LOI spinner we have which says a lot about how dry our spin stocks are in the country rn

 

[gabbadan]

Did anyone notice Howie announced before the game said Smith was the only replacement and in for the injured Marsh?

I like watching Zampa a right arm leggie bowling mostly wronguns.
Getting wickets by forcing hole outs in the deep is an art form .

 

[Shady Slim]

Did anyone notice Howie announced before the game said Smith was the only replacement and in for the injured Marsh?

I like watching Zampa a right arm leggie bowling mostly wronguns.
Getting wickets by forcing hole outs in the deep is an art form .

depends on the match context though - getting saini to smack one straight up with a hundred to get's a bit different to managing to trick stokes into throwing it away on the rope, say.

again not all his wickets are this trashy but last night's four for was certainly one to scrutinise hehe