*Official* West Indies in New Zealand - Nov/Dec 2020

[Flem274*]

mitchell is a decent player. as a straight swap for a cdg injury he is a very good choice.

jamieson's career is becoming pretty important. all of our best bowlers are not capable of batting #8, which is why we're toying with the mitchell-santa combination in the first place. jamieson's #8 talent means next time cdg is crocked we can just play another batsman at #6 with jamieson, two other quicks and ajaz (or whoever seizes the best spinner mantle).

 

[Bahnz]

You may as well just play Young instead of Mitchell in that lineup since his bowling isn't really going to add much to the four other seamers

You would've thought the same logic would've applied to Colin when Jamieson came into the team v India. I think the selectors like having a workhorse bowler in the XI who can bowl a lot of overs quickly for not too many runs, so that the bowlers don't get too flogged or behind the over rate.

 

[thundaboult]

I hope this Santner in tests thing doesn't stretch out to the extent it did with Southee for odi's.

 

[Athlai]

I hope this Santner in tests thing doesn't stretch out to the extent it did with Southee for odi's.

I'm pretty sure he was outright dropped and is only injury cover now

 

[nzfan]

Nooooo.... Not Santner all over again. Can we get anyone instead of him, even a Bracewell will do for me. We'll be all right with our stock in pace bowling but my worry is if Santner takes two or three wickets or get some runs he'll play for the next two years unchanged. That's more of a worry.

Besides Santner has barely bowled in the recent months and his preparation for test cricket will be 3 T20s. I'd rather take Somerville or Sodhi. Also this means curtains for Somerville. He's not going to play another test match for Black Caps.

 

[nzfan]

I also don't see much future in Mitchell in test cricket. He's among wickets and runs atm but just doesn't inspire.

 

[nzfan]

I don't understand the part Southee heading to Hamilton to prepare for test series. In that case we he not looked at for test side originally? I thought he was going to captain T20s and then play the test series. Getting a bit confused now.

 

[Chewie]

He was always planned to be part of the team for the first two T20Is then go to the test while the rest of the team played the third

 

[straw man]

Tbf to the selectors it seems a good policy to have a spinner in the squad and the pickings are slim - cursing Tastle once again for retiring from FC/test cricket. Somerville was the only real alternative to Santner and bowled a lot of overs for very few wickets in the pre-Xmas Plunket Shield. I still probably would've picked him over Santner who hasn't played FC at all this season.

Bluntly, we're all expecting nothing from a spinner in pre-Xmas tests at home, and usually not much afterwards at home either. It's more that there's a school of thought we should play one when possible (and an attack of Southee, Boult, Wagner & CDG cries out for the point of difference added by a good spinner) because the experience will help in the future. I'm in two minds about that.

The sad truth is that our best bet pre-Xmas is very likely 4 seamers + CDG/Mitchell's wobblers, with wobblers putting the genuine bowlers to shame by taking more wickets than any of them.

 

[Chewie]

He was always planned to be part of the team for the first two T20Is then go to the test while the rest of the team played the third

It's the same with Jamieson and Taylor, while Mitchell and Santner will stay to play the third T20I which does suggest they might not be in the starting XI

 

[nzfan]

He was always planned to be part of the team for the first two T20Is then go to the test while the rest of the team played the third

Sure but what changed then? Why change of plan?

 

[Chewie]

We'll just get Blundell to bowl some off-spin again

 

[Chewie]

Sure but what changed then? Why change of plan?

Nothing has changed?

 

[nzfan]

I thought Southee is going to captain two games and head to test match preparation. Now he's been withdrawn from the first 2 T20Is? Am I reading it right?

I read it wrongly, Southee is staying for the first two games. I thought he's leaving already and Santner is captaining all three T20Is. I was quietly happy when I misread he's going to leave the T20 squad :-)

 

[Flem274*]

im not a fan of 5 quicks unless it's a lawn but if the spinner is a genuine liability like santner or sodhi (tests) then sure. id probs have recalled somerville or even taken a look at rippon for the bat + h4x wrist spin role.

 

[nzfan]

I think WI have a real chance here if they play out of their skin. Some of the NZ test XI starters haven't played red ball cricket in a wee while and those that did are not among runs (Nicholls and Latham have been all right). A very good time for WI to cause an upset. If they can bat well they may have an outside chance I believe. Seddon Park or Mount is probably the best deck to bat on early in the season. If you can get through the first couple of sessions there's a chance to post big score. The ball does turn on this deck if the test match lasts over 3 days.

 

[Bahnz]

I think WI have a real chance here if they play out of their skin. Some of the NZ test XI starters haven't played red ball cricket in a wee while and those that did are not among runs (Nicholls and Latham have been all right). A very good time for WI to cause an upset. If they can bat well they may have an outside chance I believe. Seddon Park or Mount is probably the best deck to bat on early in the season. If you can get through the first couple of sessions there's a chance to post big score. The ball does turn on this deck if the test match lasts over 3 days.

This is kind of the problem isn't it? WI have probably the worst top 6 of any test playing nation (save Zim). Having Bravo back helps, but his record in recent years looks a bit uneven. I know WI's pace attack is excellent, but really I think NZ should be very disappointed if they don't win this 2-0 (especially given the pantsing they handed out to the same Indian team that hammered WI in 2019).

 

[nzfan]

The current series has been so confusing with both T20Is and NZ A games starting around the same time. Below are the squads for tomorrow. Jason Holder is included in the WI side. WI coach Simmons has sounded out his batters to spend some time in the middle and score big runs to be looked into for the first test. Looks like WI have 3-4 batting spots up for grabs. Why wouldn't Jason Holder play T20Is?


NEW ZEALAND “A” (from): Cole McConchie (captain), Joe Carter, Dane Cleaver, Henry Cooper, Jacob Duffy, Ken McClure, Henry Nicholls, Michael Rae, Rachin Ravindra, Michael Rippon, Ben Sears, Sean Solia, Nathan Smith, Blair Tickner, Will Young.

WEST INDIES (from): Jason Holder (captain), Jermaine Blackwood, Kraigg Brathwaite, Darren Bravo, Shamarh Brooks, John Campbell, Roston Chase, Rahkeem Cornwall, Shane Dowrich, Shannon Gabriel, Chemar Holder, Alzarri Joseph, Kemar Roach. Reserves: Joshua da Silva, Nkrumah Bonner, Preston McSween, Shayne Moseley, Raymon Reifer, Jayden Seales.

Is the 4 day game also not a proper first class game as in more than 11 playing for each side is it? If not can they send players not involved to play Ford Trophy otherwise the ford trophy will be like a provisional A game. They have taken out 4 bowlers from Otago. Firebirds missing out on a lot of batting. Aces, Canterbury and CD have near full team.

 

[nzfan]

This is kind of the problem isn't it? WI have probably the worst top 6 of any test playing nation (save Zim). Having Bravo back helps, but his record in recent years looks a bit uneven. I know WI's pace attack is excellent, but really I think NZ should be very disappointed if they don't win this 2-0 (especially given the pantsing they handed out to the same Indian team that hammered WI in 2019).

Yeah without sounding ****y Black Caps look way too good on paper no matter what the combination is. That's why I said outside chance for WI. I'd love a very closely contested game. Although not at the cost of Black Caps but still welcome a better performance than England or India last year. Those two never kind of delivered for the hype that was generated. Similarly we sucked over in Aussie but I'd like closely contested test matches. Hopefully it's not a one sided affair that finishes in 3 days time or a draw with both teams scoring 500 each.

On that note we are so out of depth in spin bowling it's not funny. We had to borrow a player from Aussie (Somerville) and now have to keep going back to Santner or Sodhi who haven't delivered so many times in the past. Spin bowling stock is truly worrying and our green seaming decks through the year is not helping develop up and coming spinners. Maybe there's got to be more games played up north and not be struck with home and away games in PS. Something definitely needs to be done about this.

 

[Immenso]

I don't mind Santner.

As an allrounder, I thought he was quite harshly dropped. Don't judge careers of finger spinners based on away tours of Australia.
As a spinner, no problems if they dropped him for Ajaz or Sommerville.

Jamieson changes everything, if he is the real deal. What we need from CdG will be less valuable. We definitely don't need Colin-lite.

My biggest concern with Santner is actually his batting (to short ball) rather than his role as a holding spinner in a 5 man attack.

Out of the 3, for this test. My choices in order
Young
Santner
Mitchell.