The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Daemon]

Can anyone link anything to the time when MWaugh became an ODI opener, and why it happened?

Full Scorecard of Australia vs New Zealand 1st ODI 1992/93 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

Complete Scorecard of Australia vs New Zealand 1st ODI 1992/93, Australia tour of New Zealand only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Find the complete scorecard of Australia vs New Zealand 1st ODI Online

www.espncricinfo.com

This is the series where it first happened. Hit two 50s in a row.

Can't find much except this https://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/153635.html

"The five-match one-day series was also keenly contested, and settled in Australia's favour only in the final game. Their batsmen, and Mark Waugh in particular, seemed to revel in the greater licence permitted to them; Waugh averaged over 60 when promoted to open, a move previously ruled out by team management."

 

[Daemon]

Here's a better one - https://www.cricket.com.au/news/fea...rs-1999-world-cup-highlights-video/2018-01-16

Waugh's promotion came after a significant stint – more than four years and almost 50 ODIs – as a lower middle-order batter and occasional seamer, and was partly a response to Australia's costly failure to reach the play-off rounds of the 1992 ICC World Cup, which they co-hosted with New Zealand.

Sensing a staleness to the strategy that had unexpectedly carried his team to the trophy in 1987 but had failed to evolve with the limited-overs game, skipper Allan Border approached Waugh prior to an ODI against New Zealand in Dunedin in 1993 and asked him if he was interested in opening.

"We needed to inject something new into our game," Border said in Waugh's 2002 autobiography.

"We'd played a very similar game plan since the World Cup in 1987, but it was probably time to inject something new into the mix.

"I just felt that if we got off to a good start, a bit of a flyer at the top of the order, it was amazing how it could snowball for the rest of the innings.

"Whether it was good management or good luck, we thought Mark could play that role.

"He could play all different roles."

At the end of that NZ campaign, Waugh returned to the middle-order as the Australians searched for years for the most productive opening pair, regularly rotating Boon, Mark Taylor, Michael Slater, Matthew Hayden and even Greg Blewett and Stuart Law with no enduring success.

Finally, in the weeks prior to the 1996 World Cup on the subcontinent, the selectors deemed that Slater was not the man for the job and reinstated Waugh as opener for an ODI against Sri Lanka in Perth, where he posted a peerless 130 before being ingloriously run out, attempting to run a single from a wide.

 

[honestbharani]

Here's a better one - https://www.cricket.com.au/news/fea...rs-1999-world-cup-highlights-video/2018-01-16

Lol.. funny how very next year India discovered Sachin Tendulkar, the ODI opener, in the same country. But unlike Aus, we did not mess around his position once he found his success there.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If t20s came along in the 90s who do you think the bolters would be? Other than the obvious Aus and SA I think NZ and Pak would have been well suited to the format and overperformed relative to Tests and ODIs. Coversely I think England and India would have pretty ordinary.

Well NZ and Pakistan were much better ODI sides than England and India in the 90s, so no surprises there. NZ also played Cricket Max domestically and internationally in the 90s.

 

[honestbharani]

Here's a better one - https://www.cricket.com.au/news/fea...rs-1999-world-cup-highlights-video/2018-01-16

Key takeaway for the ATG fielder discussions from that article..

"I remember smacking it to backward point a couple of times and (South Africa fielder) Jonty Rhodes kept stopping them.

"I was probably getting a bit frustrated, so I hit one and just called 'yes' and Jonty got it again and ran Junior out.

"It wasn’t the perfect marriage in the first innings, but I feel like I had a nice marriage to Junior in my opening days with him after that."

Why Jonty was, to me, a level above any other fielder in my time of watching cricket. He just created opportunities that never happened with other fielders and over time, his sheer presence became a talking point or strategy for teams playing against that RSA side.

 

[Gob]

All time NSW

Taylor *
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Waugh SR
Miller
Haddin +
Bernaud
Davidson
Lindwall
McGrath

Geezers that's a pretty decent side. Worth a look at a second xi

Warner
Slater
Bevan
Waugh,ME
Clarke
Walters
Neville
Lee
Starc
Hazlewood
McGill

 

[honestbharani]

That is ridiculous for a FC team.

 

[trundler]

If you replace Taylor with Trumper, that's stronger than every all time XI except maybe WI. Weren't Gilchrist and O'Reilly NSWers too?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Border too, actually played for his home state in fact. Reckon he'd at least snag a spot in the 2nd XI.

 

[bagapath]

If you replace Taylor with Trumper, that's stronger than every all time XI except maybe WI. Weren't Gilchrist and O'Reilly NSWers too?

Let’s check this out

Trumper VS. Greenidge
Morris. VS Haynes
Bradman VS. Richards
Smith VS. Lara
Waugh SR VS. Headley
Miller VS. Sobers
Haddin + VS. Dujon +
Bernaud VS. Gibbs
Davidson VS. Ambrose
Lindwall VS. Holding
McGrath VS. Marshall

openers and fast bowlers and wicket keeper and spinner are equal

west Indies all rounder better

NSW middle order better

marginal advantage to NSW XI if you ask me

 

[ataraxia]

Barbados also has an incredible XI FTR.

 

[Gob]

If you replace Taylor with Trumper, that's stronger than every all time XI except maybe WI.

Or Nick Larkin #spikeythoughts

 

[Nintendo]

All time NSW

Taylor *
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Waugh SR
Miller
Haddin +
Bernaud
Davidson
Lindwall
McGrath

Geezers that's a pretty decent side. Worth a look at a second xi

Warner
Slater
Bevan
Waugh,ME
Clarke
Walters
Neville
Lee
Starc
Hazlewood
McGill

How do starc and haze make the second xi but not Cummins?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Haddin sticks out a bit as not ATG class. As trundler said though, you can justify picking Gilchrist for NSW which makes it even more ridiculous. That would give you 4 players that are just about locks for the world ATG XI from one state

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Surprised to see that no Imran fanboys are jumping on the NSW XI.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

How do starc and haze make the second xi but not Cummins?

One could argue Cummins hasn't really played enough for NSW, still only eight Shield games to his name.


More likely it was just a mistake, but I'm not sure

 

[Nintendo]

One could argue Cummins hasn't really played enough for NSW, still only eight Shield games to his name.


More likely it was just a mistake, but I'm not sure

Cummins has only played 8 first class games for nsw? My bad then.

 

[Coronis]

What was his path into the test side like? I mean obviously he’s an enormous talent but wow getting into the test side with that few games feels a little off to me.

 

[morgieb]

What was his path into the test side like? I mean obviously he’s an enormous talent but wow getting into the test side with that few games feels a little off to me.

Had a dominant BBL in 2011 to pike people’s interest. Same thing happened with Nathan Lyon.

 

[aussie tragic]

What was his path into the test side like? I mean obviously he’s an enormous talent but wow getting into the test side with that few games feels a little off to me.

Cummins only had 3 FC games before his Test debut in SA