Official Rugby Thread

[StephenZA]

It was a good game from the Pumas. Well done!

I wonder if South Africa regret withdrawing from the tournament. They probably would've won it easily.

There was a concern about being underprepared but the bigger concern from the players was not been able to get back home for Christmas. I think it was the right decision considering everything.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

This is surely the 1st time in history that the NZ test cricket team is more highly ranked than the NZ test rugby team

 

[GotSpin]

What an amazing game

Go the pumas. Completely outplayed them

 

[Flem274*]

I do think though having watched Super Rugby Aotearoa and parts of the Mitre 10 Cup that we're lacking depth for the first time in a long time. There simply aren't a lot of players pushing for higher honours and putting pressure on so players are maybe feeling safe in their position which isn't what an All Blacks player is typically used to.

there's depth everywhere except the tight 5. lots of talented locks too, but the front row...

might need to start a doping program for front rowers.

 

[the big bambino]

The pumas win exposes the so called wallabies revival. When i hear nz fans doubt their side's ability to beat france england and the saffers it shows just how far behind the wallabies remain. At least we don't have the likes of pocock and castles involved and stinking up the joint anymore.

 

[ripper868]

Wallabies could win the world cup without a try being scored against them and bambino would find the negative in it somehow.

Hopefully this is the beginning of an end of AB domination, however weve heard all this before, and theyll probably go on a 30 match winning streak, only to lose the RWC final to a Rob Simmons Field Goal in extra time.

Great win for Argentina, Matera is a world class talisman they can really get behind.

 

[Flem274*]

one more loss this summer and i think foster gets shot.

not as sold on razor as some given the all blacks like to benefit from guys who have already coached overseas, but if he can instill some cheap crusaders penalty baiting into the side while avoiding selecting with extreme red bias then im ok with it.

i still think japan showed the way forward for sides who can't rely on a never ending pool of massive afrikaaners or cash - pure speed. my only reservation with jamie josephs is how exhausted his highlanders sides were mid-season because he pushed them so hard pre-season.

the guy we really needed was dave rennie. the man with the humility to instill some jammy tactics into his chiefs side like quick hooks because they accepted the crusaders and south african scrums were just better.

the all blacks are probably too proud for quick hooks.

 

[Bahnz]

All Blacks era well and truly over now. Foster now with the worst win % in All Blacks history. Has there been a worse side than this one?

The 1998 team was garbage - 5 defeats on the bounce (admittedly against 2 of the best 3 teams in the world).

 

[James]

The 1998 team was garbage - 5 defeats on the bounce (admittedly against 2 of the best 3 teams in the world).

All Blacks definitely weak then I agree, but Australia had one of their best-ever teams (even their bench was world-class), and South Africa were beasts too.

What gets me is we're playing arguably the weakest ever Australian team, an Argentina team that hadn't played in over a year and we're simply not performing or showing any passion. The players need some Alex Ferguson hairdryer treatment, but Foster doesn't seem capable of doing it.

there's depth everywhere except the tight 5. lots of talented locks too, but the front row...

might need to start a doping program for front rowers.

Politely disagree with you there. I think we're lacking big/solid/go forward in our back-row too and I haven't seen it in Mitre Cup either. I think our back-line is more than capable but our forward pack doesn't seem to be able to dominate.

 

[Flem274*]

we have insane backrow depth for both mobility and smashing things. sam cane, ardie savea, hoskins sotutu, akira ioane, dalton papali'i and lachlan boshier are not the problem. they've even found room for pure filler like cullen grace.

 

[the big bambino]

Wallabies could win the world cup without a try being scored against them and bambino would find the negative in it somehow.

We'll never know will we?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

we have insane backrow depth for both mobility and smashing things. sam cane, ardie savea, hoskins sotutu, akira ioane, dalton papali'i and lachlan boshier are not the problem. they've even found room for pure filler like cullen grace.

Not really. Loose forwards have always been the area of greatest NZ strength and seen as the premier position, but the current ones aren't that great. None of these blokes would get close to the SA or England sides and they just got comprehensively outplayed by Matera. What would PTSD-Kolisi-Vermuleun or Curry-Underhill-Vunipola do to them?

 

[James]

we have insane backrow depth for both mobility and smashing things. sam cane, ardie savea, hoskins sotutu, akira ioane, dalton papali'i and lachlan boshier are not the problem. they've even found room for pure filler like cullen grace.

@Fuller Pilch said exactly what I was going to say. We need some no-nonsense mongrel in our forward pack that is going to give us some decent go forward. We haven't learnt from that semi-final defeat to England and is exactly why we nedeed new coaching staff with a fresh approach and not more of the same.

 

[Flem274*]

the point was we've got big talent, running talent, tackling talent and jackal talent. if you're gonna argue we don't have loose forward depth fuller then we have no depth.

those sides would be a challenge sure, but ardie and cane are world class players too.

 

[James]

those sides would be a challenge sure, but ardie and cane are world class players too.

Ardie and Cane are world-class I agree, but in the modern power-game, you can't play both IMO. You need big hard-go-forward men around them.

 

[Flem274*]

@Fuller Pilch said exactly what I was going to say. We need some no-nonsense mongrel in our forward pack that is going to give us some decent go forward. We haven't learnt from that semi-final defeat to England and is exactly why we nedeed new coaching staff with a fresh approach and not more of the same.

joe moody, dane coles, brodie retallick, sam whitelock, ardie savea, sam cane and kieran read were all world class players the day before the semi. if they're now magically not good enough, who do we have that's better?

moody/coles/hodgman/retallick/whitelock/ioane/cane/ardie is the best pack we have and most have shown class before.

if anything picking big ***** who can't do literally anything except scrum and get tired after 10 minutes with our current game plan is the problem. big karl is huge but he can't even catch. there's no point in a player like that.

 

[Flem274*]

Ardie and Cane are world-class I agree, but in the modern power-game, you can't play both IMO. You need big hard-go-forward men around them.

fyi sam cane has a significant size jump on ardie.

the modern power game as of the 2019 semi? the modern power game where it took the world champions to halt japan? the modern power game where cheslin kolbe is the best wing in the world by a distance?

short of doping we're never going to be bigger than south africa or england. we never have been. our historic strength is we're fitter, faster and mentally tougher.

we need to stop hedging between picking big fat slow unfit ball droppers and trying to play 2015 wc speedball. we should just work on taking speedball to the next level.

we need a terrifying 6 i agree and it's probably akira but there's other ways to beat teams that go for size and rush defence in the current refereeing climate, like the perfect jackaling of ardie savea and lachlan boshier.

we need to make these big fat ***** rushing at us work harder.

 

[James]

joe moody, dane coles, brodie retallick, sam whitelock, ardie savea, sam cane and kieran read were all world class players the day before the semi. if they're now magically not good enough, who do we have that's better?

I was saying the same thing the day before that semi that our forwards were going to cost us against England and I was proven correct. I've seen it coming a mile off that we're falling behind because we don't have a big enough power game. We want to play free-flowing rugby as we always have but it all starts with decent go-forward. South Africa and England have taken their games up a level and have amazing ball-playing big forwards and is why they're leading the pack by quite some distance currently. On current form, I'd have South Africa, England, France ahead of us.

And that's my point that we don't seem to have players that are better than what we have currently which is worrying.

fyi sam cane has a significant size jump on ardie.

True, I'm comparing them to the players Fuller directly mentioned. There's no comparison there, as we can't match them so they go right over us.

the modern power game as of the 2019 semi? the modern power game where it took the world champions to halt japan? the modern power game where cheslin kolbe is the best wing in the world by a distance?

England rang riots over our forward pack in that semi and got the benefits out of it is my memory from the night. I'm solely referring to the forward-pack. If you're getting decent go-forward, you can unlease the speed of the backs as South Africa do so well. I'd like to see Will Jordan at 14 with his speed.

we need to stop hedging between picking big fat slow unfit ball droppers and trying to play 2015 wc speedball. we should just work on taking speedball to the next level.

I agree with you, but you can't play that sort of game when you're going backwards and getting dominated up front. Sototu showed some promise off the back of the scrum when he came on so maybe he can get this power going in time and stand-in for Ardie.

 

[James]

Just looked up that 1998 Wallabies team and wow, what a team they were:

FB	15	Matthew Burke
WG	14	Ben Tune
OC	13	Daniel Herbert
IC	12	Tim Horan
WG	11	Joe Roff
FH	10	Stephen Larkham
SH	9	George Gregan
N8	8	Toutai Kefu		45'
FL	7	David Wilson
FL	6	Matt ****bain
LK	5	John Eales (c)
LK	4	Tom Bowman
TP	3	Andrew Blades
HK	2	Phil Kearns
LP	1	Richard Harry		15'
Replacements:
PR	16	Dan Crowley		15'
FL	17	Willie Ofahengaue		45' 76'
HK	18	Jeremy Paul
FL	19	Owen Finegan		76'
SH	20	Chris Whitaker
CT	21	Nathan Grey
CE	22	Jason Little

 

[James]

Who you guys picking for tonight? Argentina or Australia?

I'm thinking after Brisbane's performance and Rennie having had more time with his troops they'll run out winners by about 10 points.