2020/21 New Zealand Domestic Season

[nzfan]

Loved the "I'm not going to reveal my CV" call haha!

Yeah def not in the "Rachin is mud" camp at all, I would give anything for a classy left handed #5 in the test team, just would hate for him to succum the too early middle order merry go around that can claim alot and the reshuffling and reclassification of top order roles vs Test roles, although recent times suggest they should play their cards right.

I guess I was more actually in line with this comment and the likes of Rob Odonnell etc plodding along with averages of 30 odd season after season having 50 odd first class caps being a mainstay and the likes of Finn Allen having to be moved around. Although, seems as though everyone rates Finn, from what I seen at EPOO he seems very handsy / goes at the ball and opening (what on Earth were the Aces doing... not surprised) number 3 is prob not the best option for a guy who deals in boundaries.

I think it's going that way unfortunately for Rachin. The only way he's going to be slotted in is likely in the middle order or lower middle order as an all rounder option. Doesn't help we are slated to play very few test matches. I think he'll likely come into the one day or even T20 side. I'd say in couple of years we may start seeing him a bit more involved in the national side. The early years are going to be just that as you mentioned, bit and pieces. Over the time he'll probably settle down in the top 5 and bowl fair bit. I don't see us struggling with bat for the next 2-3 years. There are well settled players and the likes of Devon/Young will go well if given opportunities.

Finn Allen is not the one you'd pick for technique, does go with hard hands as you mentioned. Likely defence is not his best skill. Very good player of the spin though from what I've seen. He'll be one of the better batters against spin.

 

[nzfan]

McCullum to probably approve of Dashing Dale's Basin day 1 batting intentions. Especially any jumping attempts to lash it like the one seen at 2:10.

Not sure who we have in the region to offer anything like it in the spring rounds next year. We may just have to let Rob Walter tighten up Dashing Dale a little bit, then try to recruit him.

Few swooshes aside I thought he batted really well. You need a bit of luck to go your way on a early season basin deck which is fair. He's come along so well. A year ago similar deck he was all at sea. He's starting to look more like Glenn Phillips sans the pull shots :-) He must have definitely put in good work during the winter. Like the back and across movement. Looks strong square of the wicket. Nice to see.

 

[nzfan]

Honestly I think our biggest problem is we have a glut of quality players who are all of similar age which makes breaking new guys into the squad hard to crack. We'll fall off a cliff in about 5 years too when all those guys start to retire.

Yeah everyone's around 30, both batters and the bowlers. We will see a spike in good results in the next 4-5 years no doubt. Just about the time when the batters and spinners are at their best time of their career. Maybe not so much in white ball cricket but I think we're going to go very well in test matches. Likely need some young blood in one day and T20s particularly in batting and fast bowling.

 

[nzfan]

Auckland A Wellington A game going on in Auckland. Munro blasted 180+ and our boys have scored less than him all put together.

Good to see the U19 spin wiz Ashok play and also grab a 3 fer

 

[Moss]

Honestly I think our biggest problem is we have a glut of quality players who are all of similar age which makes breaking new guys into the squad hard to crack. We'll fall off a cliff in about 5 years too when all those guys start to retire.

This is where those A tours become important, also if you're going to be scheduling a glut of T20s and ODIs might as well use them as a way of getting the up-and-comers into international cricket.

With Rachin, would definitely hope he ends up as an opener (or top 4 player) in tests and ODIs, the national side is really missing someone who bats up the order and can also bowl usefully if needed. Less pressure to play an allrounder at any cost then as well.

 

[CharlesLara]

I think it's going that way unfortunately for Rachin. The only way he's going to be slotted in is likely in the middle order or lower middle order as an all rounder option. Doesn't help we are slated to play very few test matches. I think he'll likely come into the one day or even T20 side. I'd say in couple of years we may start seeing him a bit more involved in the national side. The early years are going to be just that as you mentioned, bit and pieces. Over the time he'll probably settle down in the top 5 and bowl fair bit. I don't see us struggling with bat for the next 2-3 years. There are well settled players and the likes of Devon/Young will go well if given opportunities.

Finn Allen is not the one you'd pick for technique, does go with hard hands as you mentioned. Likely defence is not his best skill. Very good player of the spin though from what I've seen. He'll be one of the better batters against spin.

I think this is my fear. I'd rather him focus on being a quality/consistent run getter specialist bat than good bat and good for some overs. Especially as his introduction to the national setup, as you said, will most likely be via T20/LO side where I suspect his bowling will be seen as critical as his runs. The trend of guys, particularly in domestic cricket willing to change their roles at the drop of a ha (in the space of a season mind you) to whatever is needed for a crack at higher honours is what I'm fearful of. You see opening bats becoming all rounders and vice versa, and generally only for a season. I don't blame the players either.

Yeah I see him being an aggressive middle order option, just desperately want him to get some confidence and belief from wherever he's playing without mismanagement.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

He might be a Styris situation ... start off as a mid-lower order all rounder and end up as a top order batsman.

 

[Flem274*]

he'll be a batsman. he made his fc debut for nz A as a batsman. the selectors sent a very clear message with that fc debut that they think he can seriously bat and they want him playing fc cricket as a batsman asap. i suspect wellington would not have been popular with nzc if they left rachin on the sideline or gave him the harry boam treatment.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

he'll be a batsman. he made his fc debut for nz A as a batsman. the selectors sent a very clear message with that fc debut that they think he can seriously bat and they want him playing fc cricket as a batsman asap. i suspect wellington would not have been popular with nzc if they left rachin on the sideline or gave him the harry boam treatment.

Totally, I’m just meaning as a path into the national side.

 

[nzfan]

I suppose we will have to wait and watch but here's hoping they don't wait for another 8 years to debut him. Maybe next year or two is reasonable otherwise it may go the Will Young way. Young is still waiting to get into the team.

I think the current management is quite good. All the players they have introduced in the last 2-3 years have gone well. I can't think of anyone that hasn't delivered. Just that they don't get a good long run but understandable currently the team is stacked with some serious players.

 

[CharlesLara]

LOL at Robbie O'Donnells dismissal, thats 50 caps and a captaincy deep

 

[Flem274*]

man i was just thinking this morning how dubious our batting is in fc cricket as well. disgruntled fan ramble incoming.

im more tolerant to journeymen than most on cw because for someone to average 21 or 50 then mathematically someone else has to be meh, but guys averaging 30 or less over 20, 50, 70 games (chad bowes) should not be playing red ball cricket let alone skipper like o'donnell. 35 is the minimum for a specialist batsman imo.

i guess the counter is they might have no one better, though looking at all the players who have walked away or the logjams for playing spots in some squads you have to wonder why some guys don't move. brad schmulian and ben lister would play every game for another province.

i guess the bowling could just be good. it has been a reliable era for us when we elevate a fc player to tests, even a surprising one like cdg, blundell or mitchell. martin guptill is getting consistently owned despite being in munros favourite batting position so that's a change.

edit - aren't teams straying close to what got them telling offs from nzc as well? solia and kitchen are weird opening choices when those sides have rutherford and guptill.

on a positive note chapmans really improving his output since the india A tons.

 

[kaetor]

Is that a female umpire in the ND/CD game? Surely that's a first?

 

[jcas0167]

Is that a female umpire in the ND/CD game? Surely that's a first?

Pat Carrick got a mention in Ken Rutherford's book for being involved in a game where there was a huge amount of sledging and having a relatively brief umpiring career. Just looking her up she umpired at first class level from 87-90.

Ken McClure opening now for Canterbury with Latham. Looks to be handling it well so far, some classy hook shots.

 

[Moss]

man i was just thinking this morning how dubious our batting is in fc cricket as well. disgruntled fan ramble incoming.

im more tolerant to journeymen than most on cw because for someone to average 21 or 50 then mathematically someone else has to be meh, but guys averaging 30 or less over 20, 50, 70 games (chad bowes) should not be playing red ball cricket let alone skipper like o'donnell. 35 is the minimum for a specialist batsman imo.

i guess the counter is they might have no one better, though looking at all the players who have walked away or the logjams for playing spots in some squads you have to wonder why some guys don't move. brad schmulian and ben lister would play every game for another province.

i guess the bowling could just be good. it has been a reliable era for us when we elevate a fc player to tests, even a surprising one like cdg, blundell or mitchell. martin guptill is getting consistently owned despite being in munros favourite batting position so that's a change.

edit - aren't teams straying close to what got them telling offs from nzc as well? solia and kitchen are weird opening choices when those sides have rutherford and guptill.

on a positive note chapmans really improving his output since the india A tons.

I hope we are not slowly going back back to where we were in the late 90’s to mid 00’s - FC cricket utterly dominated by greentops, any half-decent line and length merchant likely to succeed, batsmen simply not developing a backfoot game, selection for the national side becoming a lottery etc. I suppose there’s usually a big difference in the early vs late season pitches so performances should be judged accordingly, but I sense a lot more scepticism when I browse domestic threads these days compared with the optimism of 6-7 years ago.

 

[nzfan]

I'm with Moss on this. The problem with the sticky green tops are the top order can never really confidently play their shots. Can't trust the bounce due to sticky nature of the wicket. Any half decent trundlers can put the ball at good length/short of good length and knock over batters consistently. There were 5 openers today not able to even see off the first half hour of the inning. Besides they have put pressure on Kooka to produce ball with pronounced seam. That is disastrous for batters on an already nibbling overly seaming conditions. Spinners won't bowl any number of overs. Majority of the wickets are tailor made for seamers and likely spinners bowl less than 5% of the overs.

This is causing our top order batters to being nothing more than plodders. The international decks are not going to be anything like this. Besides outside of NZ and England everywhere else in the world pitches won't even come close to these. We are getting away right now thanks to some very established and experienced batters in the Black Caps. Once they hang their boots we will invariably struggle unless something is done about the pitches. Next crop of batters will be utterly useless against short bowling and spin massively. The only way out of this is to either increase the number of first class games so that later in the season when batting becomes a bit easy our batters still get some time to spend in the middle (not going to happen, they are reducing them right now) or organize A tours overseas. Otherwise I can't see our batters developing to play in all conditions and with confidence. Similarly spinners will barely ever bowl few overs and they will never develop in the long run. Expecting the same spinners to run amok overseas is asking for too much having bowled like 20 or 30 overs a season in first class.

Eventually even the bowlers bowling over 140 ticks will look at the figures of bowlers bowling at 120 ticks and start giving up pace for just that line and length. Eventually your currency is runs and wickets to crack at the next level.

That said if you are playing for ND or Auckland or CD and playing most games at home then you have no reason not to score. Seddon Park, Mount, Whangarei, Eden Park outer oval, Napier are some of the better decks for batters.

 

[nzfan]

The above post is a bit out of disappointment of seeing how Blundell and Raval got out today. There's nothing Hawkins, Kitchen, Blundell, Raval, Beghin or Solia did was wrong. They didn't play a horrendous shot but still back in hut before they spent more time in the middle than they did padding up. Throw in some young ones in the mix that have reasonable future and they'll be scarred forever not able to buy a run. They'll probably be dropped more than they are picked. Expecting them to be very confident batters in the years to come is asking for lots.

Nowhere in the world will the conditions be so testing for the batters maybe barring say UK. That said the county sides play 14 first class games over the season and the spread is fairly even. Later in the summer they get very good decks to bat on and spinners also come into play. Here before you realize the plunkett shield is over with a blink of an eye.

Over in Aussie, they play two rounds on very good batting decks mostly. The bowlers will have to develop skills to knock over batsman. They have to add additional pace, bounce, able to bowl cutters, cross seamers which add a whole lot skills. They neither get swing or seam on those decks consistently. Spinners also come into play a lot more.

 

[Kippax]

Letting Fraser Sheat and Will Williams have one month out of the five where they're dictating terms isn't the worst thing in the world. It's just quite a wet spring with groundsmen who've been a bit intransigent in their style, probably. Or else they figure the weather has been so bad for achieving pace and carry that starting games with a closer shave on day 1 would create pitches even more sluggish and undesirable than they already are.

Maybe when a prolonged South African first-tier failure like Conway isn't getting out there at 3 and keeping his three-year rolling average above about 75, NZ's domestic batsmen can have another bitch about how unfair everything is. Then they can lift Finn Allen back out of the dumpster, telling him the great news that all those obscene Hamish Rutherford/Colin Munro/Corey Anderson/cbf Jesse years are back on. The big grift is back on. All those big clumsy, dopey, worthless bulls are going to be rampaging around in the Plunket Shield antique shop again.

 

[Kippax]

A touch of Nick Kelly to him, in that there's clearly stylish elements but also an overly bottom-handed element.

 

[Chewie]

Otago can't take Canterbury wickets today, imagine what it'll be like when NZ A's taken all their bowlers haha