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Border-Gavaskar Trophy all time XI

honestbharani

honestbharani

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You can say that but I think Kumble bowled to better quality batsmen in a flatter pitch era which accounts for that away average a lot more than Lyon being anywhere close to Kumble in terms of class as a spinner. So I think Kumble easily > Lyon even with those stats for a BG Trophy XI.
 
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_00_deathscar

International Regular
trundler said:
It's not as off a comparison as it sounds at first. Statistically, the current Indian team has a better win/loss ratio. I don't think they're better but Lyon's bowled to a fairly strong unit.
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Maybe, but it's not necessarily to do with the batting line up's quality. More how good the bowling has been. Indian teams before used to win series at home, but usually 2-1 or 3-1 or 2-0 or something, lots of (typically high scoring) draws. They'd hardly whitewash.

The batting still performs but the bowling has REALLY stepped it up, which attributes to the incredible whitewash-like scorelines at home, and competitiveness (relative) away. Very few draws. Indian batting line up still piles it on, but is also far more capable of defending a competitive total because of the bowling attack's ability to take 20 wickets regularly in tests.

Not much in it anyway...
 
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TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Nothing wrong with the Lyon selection. Has Kumble covered going by the criteria. My wonder is that surely there has to be a better performed fast bowler than Shami right?
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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honestbharani said:
Like most numeric criteria, it misses the forest for the tree.
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It's much of a muchness for me. Seems like you're trying really hard to find reasons to fit Kumble though, and you could easily do the opposite for Lyon. You say Kumble played in a "flatter pitch era" which I don't think holds up at all in this context. The pitches in 2014-15 were possibly the flattest Australia has ever had. You also say "Kumble bowled to better players" which you could also twist to say that "Lyon bowled to better players of spin".

I don't personally rate Lyon higher than Kumble by any stretch but for the purpose of this exercise there's definitely nothing wrong with choosing Lyon ahead of him.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Dan said:
I've put this one together with a focus on away records across multiple series (that is, players who have a solid overall away record and have played in more than one away series). On those criteria, Jadeja, Bumrah and Pant performing in the upcoming series would give them a good crack at making it into the side.

Needless to say, I have not dug into the archives to work out whether the away records are the result of one good innings or not.

Harsh on Kohli, but picking three #4s seemed a bit excessive and IMO Laxman is defensible even if that wasn't factored in.

NameAway RecordOverall Record
1. Matthew Hayden1027 @ 51.351888 @ 59.00
2. Virender Sehwag948 @ 47.401738 @ 41.38
3. Cheteshwar Pujara722 @ 55.531622 @ 60.07
4. Sachin Tendulkar1441 @ 55.423262 @ 56.24
5. Steve Smith660 @ 60.001429 @ 84.05
6. VVS Laxman1236 @ 44.142434 @ 49.67
7. Ian Healy194 @ 32.33; 7 dismissals194 @ 32.33; 7 dismissals
8. Jason Gillespie33 @ 21.7243 @ 25.44
9. Nathan Lyon34 @ 30.5885 @ 32.60
10. Mohammad Shami31 @ 30.8331 @ 30.83
11. Glenn McGrath33 @ 21.3051 @ 18.64

How the **** has Shami never played a home Test vs Aus?
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This is a really solid team. I'd probably take Bumrah over Shami for 21 wickets @ 17 even at this stage but Shami is also a fine placeholder.

Lyon/Kumble is very much a toss up. Kumble has a worse away record than Lyon but has a beast home record against Australia and is the highest wicket tacker overall with 111 @ 30.3.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Teja. said:
This is a really solid team. I'd probably take Bumrah over Shami for 21 wickets @ 17 even at this stage but Shami is also a fine placeholder.

Lyon/Kumble is very much a toss up. Kumble has a worse away record than Lyon but has a beast home record against Australia and is the highest wicket tacker overall with 111 @ 30.3.
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Yeah, I'd take Bumrah over Shami too if he'd fit the criteria. This series should do it.

The criteria definitely favour Australian spinners over Indian spinners to begin with, so in part it's methodological weakness as hb pointed out. But at the same time I couldn't bring myself to pick someone averaging 37 away from home in a bowling attack though, and for reasons I've never worked out I generally don't rate Kumble much anyway.

I don't think Lyon is a strong selection. If Jadeja can maintain decent numbers with the ball this series I'd likely bring him in, given it also strengthens the tail. I genuinely do hope he can adapt to the conditions.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Dan said:
I genuinely do hope he can adapt to the conditions
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Why would you hope for that? Put your hope into something worthwhile and more realistic, like workable baseload nuclear fusion power in Australia by the end of this year.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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He’ll average 40+. Will only bowl in five innings though, tbf to him

this is going to be Planet Pizzling.
 
trundler

trundler

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Would you rather have someone who did OK against OP batting lineups or somebody who did well against woeful lineups
 
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