The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Peak Johnson was better than anyone but over their careers Dizzy and McDermott were far more consistent.

Dizzy tailed off a bit in the end, but in the early 2000s he was genuine ATG pace bowling stuff.

 

[stephen]

McDermott was better than Gillespie because he actually lead Australia's pace attack successfully at times. Vastly underrated bowler who played in some very weak Australian sides.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Bruce Reid was better than all of them.

 

[TheJediBrah]

McDermott was better than Gillespie because he actually lead Australia's pace attack successfully at times. Vastly underrated bowler who played in some very weak Australian sides.

Gillespie is better because I saw him on my tv

 

[srbhkshk]

McDermott was better than Gillespie because he actually lead Australia's pace attack successfully at times. Vastly underrated bowler who played in some very weak Australian sides.

That's just a fancy way of saying Hadlee > McGrath. :P

 

[Red]

McDermott was better than Gillespie because he actually lead Australia's pace attack successfully at times. Vastly underrated bowler who played in some very weak Australian sides.

I don’t think leading an attack is necessarily a way to differentiate them, it’s not Gillespie’s flaw that he played his entire career with McGrath.

McDermott was a tremendous bowler tho, durable, consistent.

 

[Red]

Bruce Reid was better than all of them.

Man, if his body’d held up. He was something else. The way that ball angled across a right hander.
If he’d had a durable frame he might’ve been the greatest ever. And I’m not exaggerating

 

[stephen]

I don’t think leading an attack is necessarily a way to differentiate them, it’s not Gillespie’s flaw that he played his entire career with McGrath.

McDermott was a tremendous bowler tho, durable, consistent.

Every time McGrath wasn't there Gillespie went missing. He was a very good bowler but not top tier. McDermott was perhaps a little more condition dependent but had a much more difficult job and did very well. Was probably better in ODIs though.

 

[bagapath]

Aussie XI who won't even make their third ATG XI but can kick serious ass

Lawry (Trumper, Hayden, Morris)
Ponsford (Langer, Taylor, Simpson)
I Chappel (Bradman, Ponting, Hill)
Walters (G Chappell, Harvey, M Waugh)
Norm O'Neil (S Smith, McCabe, M Clarke )
M Hussey (Miller, Border, S Waugh)
Haddin (Gilchrist, Healy, Marsh)
Benaud (Warne, O'Reilley, Grimmett)
McKenzie (Lillee, McGrath, Lindwall)
Harris (Davidson, Spofforth, McDermott)
Cummins (Johnson, Gillespie, Reid)

 

[stephen]

Well Cummins is likely on the up and up. If already say he's ahead of many other Aussie quicks.

I'd also say that both Wally Grout and Don Tallon deserve a mention with the gloves. Those two were both rated very, very highly. Also Haddin is criminally underrated with both bat and gloves.

 

[Coronis]

Langer and Taylor ahead of Ponsford? nahhh

 

[bagapath]

Well Cummins is likely on the up and up. If already say he's ahead of many other Aussie quicks.

I'd also say that both Wally Grout and Don Tallon deserve a mention with the gloves. Those two were both rated very, very highly. Also Haddin is criminally underrated with both bat and gloves.

fixed the wk part. don't know what got into my brain

 

[bagapath]

Langer and Taylor ahead of Ponsford? nahhh

fair point. I was thinking myself

Aussie XI who won't even make their third ATG XI but can kick serious ass

Lawry (Trumper, Hayden, Morris)
Langer (Ponsford Taylor, Simpson)
I Chappel (Bradman, Ponting, Hill)
Walters (G Chappell, Harvey, M Waugh)
Norm O'Neil (S Smith, McCabe, M Clarke )
M Hussey (Miller, Border, S Waugh)
Haddin (Gilchrist, Healy, Marsh)
Benaud (Warne, O'Reilley, Grimmett)
McKenzie (Lillee, McGrath, Lindwall)
Harris (Davidson, Spofforth, McDermott)
Reid (Johnson, Gillespie, Cummins)

 

[honestbharani]

u have Mitch Johnson making the Aussie first XI?

 

[bagapath]

Left over XI

Warner
Katich
Boon
Martyn
Hassett *
Gregory
Starc
Johnston
Lyon
Thomson
Grout +

 

[bagapath]

u have Mitch Johnson making the Aussie first XI?

fixed order

Aussie XI who won't even make their third ATG XI but can kick serious ass

Lawry (Trumper, Hayden, Morris)
Langer (Ponsford, Taylor, Simpson)
I Chappel (Bradman, Ponting, Hill)
Walters (G Chappell, Harvey, M Waugh)
Norm O'Neil (S Smith, McCabe, M Clarke )
M Hussey (Miller, Border, S Waugh)
Haddin (Gilchrist, Healy, Marsh)
Benaud (Warne, O'Reilley, Grimmett)
McKenzie (Lindwall, Davidson, Gillespie)
Harris (Lillee, Spofforth, McDermott)
Reid ( McGrath, Cummins, Johnson)

 

[bagapath]

English version

Edrich (Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Cook)
Gooch (Hutton, Boycott, Grace)
Graveney (Barrington, Root, May)
Hendren (Compton, Gower, Dexter)
Leyland (Hammond, Pietersen, Cowdrey)
Flintoff (Botham, Stokes, Grieg)
Prior (Knott, Ames, Evans)
Loahmann (Trueman, Anderson, Statham)
Tate (Barnes, Willis, Larwood)
Tyson (Snow, Bedser, Broad)
Rhodes (Laker, Underwood, Verity)

 

[Red]

Every time McGrath wasn't there Gillespie went missing. He was a very good bowler but not top tier. McDermott was perhaps a little more condition dependent but had a much more difficult job and did very well. Was probably better in ODIs though.

No idea how you came to this conclusion. Gillespie played 13 tests without McGrath, and his bowling average was better in those tests without McGrath, and his WPM was better in those tests without McGrath.

Gillepsie without McGrath, tests

FWIW his batting average also jumped by 20 runs...

 

[Magrat Garlick]

No idea how you came to this conclusion. Gillespie played 13 tests without McGrath, and his bowling average was better in those tests without McGrath, and his WPM was better in those tests without McGrath.

Gillepsie without McGrath, tests

FWIW his batting average also jumped by 20 runs...

well i can sort of see why given that half of that sample weren't very important tests, although that basically means the judgment of Gillespie's career hinges on McGrath not stepping on a ball in the warmup in 2005 which seems unfair

 

[Red]

Morris

Lawry

Hayden

Taylor *

Simpson *	Woodfull *	Ponsford	Langer
Bradman *	Ponting	I.Chappell *	Boon
G.Chappell	Harvey	Martyn	M.Waugh
Smith	S.Waugh	Clarke *	Trumper
Miller	Border *	Hussey	McCabe
Gilchrist +	Healy +	Marsh +	Tallon +
Davidson	Lindwall	Turner	Gregory
Warne	OReilly	Grimmett	Benaud *
Lillee	Gillespie	Spofforth	M.Johnson
McGrath	Cummins	McDermott	B.Johnston