****Official Australia in England 2020 (Non-Ashes)*****

[TheJediBrah]

People rate Kane don't they?

I've always thought Finch did a good job tbh

 

[Daemon]

Yeah in Tests I think it's Kane.

Paine is quite alright. Mushy not too bad too.

Kohli's decent too now that he has a strong core side and has stopped ****ing around with weird selections. Kohli's biggest value is the intensity and professionalism he brings to training and all the stuff we don't really see behind the scenes imo.

Holder is garbage as a tactician but a pretty good leader you'd say.

Overall it's just a step down from the Inzy/Ganguly/Ponting/Clarke/Smith/Strauss etc days.

 

[Neptune]

I think Morgan is a fantastic captain, but my god he really got it wrong with this one.

 

[Daemon]

It's definitely fair to criticise Morgan for bowling Rashid in the final over given how he'd gone before that.

Actually, I dunno about this.

It was only Maxwell who was pumping Rashid for sixes. Morgan brought Rashid back right towards the end and he got Maxwell out. Genius captaincy?

Then he let him bowl again because the rest of Australia can't play him.

He was probably being a bit too cute by bowling him against the lefty, but not as baffling a decision as it seems on the surface.

I blame Rashid for offering a nice lollipop to Starc first ball tbh.

 

[stephen]

Ponting was good behind the scenes but way too conservative tactically. He only really had a plan A. It's surprising that he's such a good commentator but he's clearly got a great cricketing mind and it's a shame he didn't use it more as captain.

Clarke was Ponting's opposite. Terrible behind the scenes but was an on field genius.

Finch is a solid captain and always has been.

The thing is that it's very easy to criticise captaincy mistakes in real time but every captain makes mistakes (like Morgan last night). Being a good captain is not about not making mistakes, it's about consistency in placing good fields and making good bowling changes. Having good instincts for when you need to take a risk like Clarke is icing really.

 

[Spark]

Don't agree with Rashid at the death, mostly because of big-hitting left-handed Starc, but if he had have bowled England to victory you'd all be calling Morgan a genius

Sure but it's not completely just bad luck that it didn't work, no?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting was good behind the scenes but way too conservative tactically. He only really had a plan A. It's surprising that he's such a good commentator but he's clearly got a great cricketing mind and it's a shame he didn't use it more as captain.

Clarke was Ponting's opposite. Terrible behind the scenes but was an on field genius.

Finch is a solid captain and always has been.

The thing is that it's very easy to criticise captaincy mistakes in real time but every captain makes mistakes (like Morgan last night). Being a good captain is not about not making mistakes, it's about consistency in placing good fields and making good bowling changes. Having good instincts for when you need to take a risk like Clarke is icing really.

Clarke was a brilliant on-field captain. Best Aus have had in my time. Too bad he failed to command respect from his troops.

 

[Spark]

Anyway, while this is a good series win, one does still come away from this series thinking that the deepest problem Aus has had in this format since the 2015 WC -- the failure to adequately replace Clarke and Bailey -- remains. Hopefully Smith at 3 and Labuschagne at 4 fixes that long term but they've barely games together yet.

 

[Daemon]

Anyway, while this is a good series win, one does still come away from this series thinking that the deepest problem Aus has had in this format since the 2015 WC -- the failure to adequately replace Clarke and Bailey -- remains. Hopefully Smith at 3 and Labuschagne at 4 fixes that long term but they've barely games together yet.

On the other hand they now have a pretty good spinner in Zampa which they were lacking earlier.

While the last two WCs have not really required spinners (I remember they won the 2015 WC with just Maxwell bowling spin), the next one will definitely need a couple of decent option.

 

[Spark]

On the other hand they now have a pretty good spinner in Zampa which they were lacking earlier.

While the last two WCs have not really required spinners (I remember they won the 2015 WC with just Maxwell bowling spin), the next one will definitely need a couple of decent option.

Oh yeah that's a good improvement. But the hole at 4 is an extremely serious one; people might not have always liked Clarke's output in terms of strike rate, but he was super consistent and that provided a reliable platform for those below him to launch. We're still much too reliant on either the top three putting on a huge score (as they did last year until the end of the WC, where the weakness in the middle was exposed) or lower order heroics (which are welcome but obviously not to be counted on).

 

[Spark]

Like, this is the output of everyone who's batted at 4 for Aus since the 2015 WC:

View attachment 26061

Take out Bailey for obvious reasons, and Smith ideally bats 3 but him and Labu are interchangeable here I guess. Either way, for no one to have made more than 400 (!!) runs when batting 4 for Australia in five years of cricket is pretty shocking.

 

[stephen]

Like, this is the output of everyone who's batted at 4 for Aus since the 2015 WC:View attachment 26062

View attachment 26061

Take out Bailey for obvious reasons, and Smith ideally bats 3 but him and Labu are interchangeable here I guess. Either way, for no one to have made more than 400 (!!) runs when batting 4 for Australia in five years of cricket is pretty shocking.

Pretty decent averages and strike rates though. It's more that the lower order has been rubbish than anything else.

 

[artvandalay]

Zampa has overtaken kulcha for me as the best LOI spinner going around. to think at 1 time he only seemed play because he was a default spin selection at a time when every team seemed to have 1 reliable wicket taking spinning option in their team. I saw a stat that he gets the best batsmen in the oppo team out a lot which counts even more.

as for the series a very enjoyable one, perhaps one of the best 'jamodi' series in a while and you saw what it meant to the aussies the way they celebrated at the end. a good bookend to the ashes last year.

 

[Spark]

Pretty decent averages and strike rates though. It's more that the lower order has been rubbish than anything else.

But there's no stability or consistency there, and thus no reliability. The only one who's reached 10 games in that position who actually could bat in that position in the future is Handscomb.

 

[stephen]

But there's no stability or consistency there, and thus no reliability. The only one who's reached 10 games in that position who actually could bat in that position in the future is Handscomb.

Fair point. Personally I think Australia's World Cup chances died with Khawaja's injury. We looked so much better with him at 3 and Smith at 4.

 

[Spark]

For comparison here is the entire post-2011 WC period until the end of the 2015 WC:



Just so much easier to trust your middle order when you know you can just slot a bloke there who will be good for at least a solid contribution in most innings.

 

[honestbharani]

India have had the #4 problem too. I guess its kinda nice to see two young guns shaping up with Labu and Shreyas Iyer for that slot in both sides.

 

[Spark]

India have had the #4 problem too. I guess its kinda nice to see two young guns shaping up with Labu and Shreyas Iyer for that slot in both sides.

And it's no accident that both sides had extremely strong group stages of the WC, but when the middle/lower order was exposed in a crunch game, it failed without more protection from above. If your lower/middle order isn't doing enough, the underlying problem is almost always at 3 or 4.

 

[Burgey]

Don't recall this

Yeah, genuinely can't recall this at all tbh

 

[Spark]

And it's no accident that both sides had extremely strong group stages of the WC, but when the middle/lower order was exposed in a crunch game, it failed without more protection from above. If your lower/middle order isn't doing enough, the underlying problem is almost always at 3 or 4.

Just to round off this discussion and highlight this point:



You have to go a fairly long way down the list before you find a recently active ODI player for Aus (Smith) or, even more surprisingly to me, India (Rayadu/Rahane).