The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ankitj]

Between his 6th and 31st test Waqar took 169 wickets in 25 games

That's just ridiculous.

From 1998 to 2008, Muralitharan took 631 wickets in 90 tests. How ridiculous is that?

 

[trundler]

Quite.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

View attachment 25878
Keeping a minimum cut off of 150 wickets, and leaving Sydney Barnes out, these are the fast bowlers who average 4 wkt/ match or above. If three pacers were to be selected for your ATG XI, this is a good pool to dig into.

You better not share this on the Jimmy Anderson thread as there a number of modern-day bowlers there but not the bloke with 600. Interesting that Wags and Mitch J are both on 4.29 wpm as the highest lefties (ahead of Starc, Boult, and Wasim).

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A bit short of Englishmen, but I’d be quite happy with an attack of Bedser, Trueman and Snow from that list.

Amazing to see as many Kiwis as Englishmen.

 

[OverratedSanity]

From 1998 to 2008, Muralitharan took 631 wickets in 90 tests. How ridiculous is that?

Literally a quarter of those 600 against minnows. Imo, Waqar taking almost 7 wpm is even more impressive especially since he's a pacer.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Literally a quarter of those 600 against minnows. Imo, Waqar taking almost 7 wpm is even more impressive especially since he's a pacer.

Trust me Waqar vs early 90s NZ was against minnows too. Our openers in that era made Jeet Raval look like Jack Hobbs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Fair point.

 

[trundler]

I picked dates between 2 series against Australia and this period included NZ, SL and Zimbabwe mostly.

Presented without comment:

 

[TheJediBrah]

From 1998 to 2008, Muralitharan took 631 wickets in 90 tests. How ridiculous is that?

Waqar's much more impressive. He would have had more other decent bowlers competing for the wickets. Murali would have likely bowled 40% of his teams overs and the rest of his bowlers were pretty average.

 

[morgieb]

From 1998 to 2008, Muralitharan took 631 wickets in 90 tests. How ridiculous is that?

Ridiculous as it is, it's a little bit easier for a spinner with (apart from Vaas) crappy pacers. Waqar was not only a quick, he also had Wasim in the same attack.

 

[morgieb]

He isn't really forgotten here thankfully. Gets picked in drafts and many pick him in their Aussie ATXI. Admittedly I hadn't taken note of how high his WPM was especially considering when he played. Maybe his average of 25 in England explains why he's underrated but this is more than made up by his average of 18 against WI. A peak rating (912) that was 10 higher than Trueman too.

Yeah here he's certainly not under-rated, I think the general public might underrate him because he wasn't as quick as Lillee and Lindwall. In saying that, his Test career (at least as more than a fringe player) was relatively short.

 

[morgieb]

I also think that Lillee finishing first on the WPM chart illuminates why people rate him so highly despite his average being not quite as great as some despite rarely playing in tough conditions.

 

[bagapath]

Waqar took 3 five fers in 56 tests. was a toothless tiger after 1994

 

[TheJediBrah]

Waqar took 3 five fers in 56 tests. was a toothless tiger after 1994

we're talking about his peak period

 

[Shady Slim]

Waqar's much more impressive. He would have had more other decent bowlers competing for the wickets. Murali would have likely bowled 40% of his teams overs and the rest of his bowlers were pretty average.

i suppose the converse of this is he'd have to work harder for every individual wicket given he's getting **** all support in terms of bowling partnerships at the other end barring vaas and herath tbf

 

[TheJediBrah]

i suppose the converse of this is he'd have to work harder for every individual wicket given he's getting **** all support in terms of bowling partnerships at the other end barring vaas and herath tbf

definitely not when the stat your looking at is wickets per match

 

[mr_mister]

Krejza averaged 12wpm for a brief time

 

[Line and Length]

This is ridiculous cherry picking. A cricketer needs to be considered in the context of his entire career - not just selected sections. If we carry this to its extreme, then Jim Laker's performance in his 26 and 27 Tests averages 15wpm

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is ridiculous cherry picking. A cricketer needs to be considered in the context of his entire career - not just selected sections. If we carry this to its extreme, then Jim Laker's performance in his 26 and 27 Tests averages 15wpm

That's kind of the point bud

 

[Shady Slim]

definitely not when the stat your looking at is wickets per match

well it does, because there's no divine rule that all ten wickets must fall in an innings, and so the fact that murali wasn't regularly having wickets vultured off of him is somewhat countenanced by having to work harder for each individual wicket he would get