Daemon
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Yes, from an English perspective it would be extraordinary. But we’re trying to be objective here.
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Jimmy Anderson
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honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Objective of what? I think the fact that he played a key role in England winning a series in India should mean a lot when ranking his greatness. I pointed it out earlier, to me entry to the great tier need not have achievements that need to be ranked relatively. His achievements on their own make him a great cricketer to me. The fact that were other ATG bowlers and cricketers around that period does not make him any less great.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
Daemon
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Agree
Disagree somewhat.
Also dude respectfully, you need to stop the whole “as I said earlier” thing you keep doing. It’s like you’re assuming your point is correct and then using it as evidence to support itself.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
If you read it that way, that is not what I mean. I am simply pointing back to an earlier post which explains my reasoning and position on the issue. Nothing more, nothing less.
Daemon
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Yeah in this case it’s fine
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Can we take a step back here?
Some of the English fans seem to be strongly asserting that Jimmy isn't crap and is more than a work horse trundler who just got lucky. I don't think anyone is saying that (apart from in jest/to troll) - he clearly isn't. He's a good to great bowler with weaknesses and holes in his record.
Where I DO have a problem is anyone putting him in the same tier as someone like Courtney Walsh, who was clearly superior, was an ATG bowler himself but not in the top, top rung (unlike Ambrose).
Jimmy Anderson is in the tier below Walsh, with other ATGs/ATVGs like Kumble and co.
Jimmy does get mad points for both improving over him and for longevity though, although it's arguable other pacers would also have done the same if given the chance (i.e. playing tests and tests only for England from 2000-2020), but we'll never know.
I guess the argument stems from the use of the word ATG/ATVG so if we can all get over that, we can stop going around in circles.
Some of the English fans seem to be strongly asserting that Jimmy isn't crap and is more than a work horse trundler who just got lucky. I don't think anyone is saying that (apart from in jest/to troll) - he clearly isn't. He's a good to great bowler with weaknesses and holes in his record.
Where I DO have a problem is anyone putting him in the same tier as someone like Courtney Walsh, who was clearly superior, was an ATG bowler himself but not in the top, top rung (unlike Ambrose).
Jimmy Anderson is in the tier below Walsh, with other ATGs/ATVGs like Kumble and co.
Jimmy does get mad points for both improving over him and for longevity though, although it's arguable other pacers would also have done the same if given the chance (i.e. playing tests and tests only for England from 2000-2020), but we'll never know.
I guess the argument stems from the use of the word ATG/ATVG so if we can all get over that, we can stop going around in circles.
srbhkshk
International Captain
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Do people really do what you thought HB was doing?
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Tom does
OverratedSanity
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As daemon said earlier, yes they do
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Interesting in a James Anderson thread.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
There used to be someone who argued that Walsh was in a tier on his own. Not quite a great but better than the very goods.
Teja.
Global Moderator
1. Walsh played for 17 years and was ATG standard for that entire period. Anderson played for 17 years and came in to his own 'only' for the last 10-11 years imo. That's at least 50% longer. Walsh started off great off the bat and ended his career 17 years later bowling his best ever with no real trough.
2. I'd also argue that the last decade, and especially the conditions Anderson bowled in does not fit into the 'conditions are batting friendly paradigm' that the 00s fit more easily into.
3. Walsh was an awesome performer across the world, home or away and regardless of bowling surface or bowling position. He was dominant in the sub-continent, at a time when conditions were not very good for seamers, for example.
I'd say if anything Walsh is a bit underappreciated considering how so many other ATG fast bowlers were 'only' really good for a decade or so.
Anderson is not quite in his league imo.
2. I'd also argue that the last decade, and especially the conditions Anderson bowled in does not fit into the 'conditions are batting friendly paradigm' that the 00s fit more easily into.
3. Walsh was an awesome performer across the world, home or away and regardless of bowling surface or bowling position. He was dominant in the sub-continent, at a time when conditions were not very good for seamers, for example.
I'd say if anything Walsh is a bit underappreciated considering how so many other ATG fast bowlers were 'only' really good for a decade or so.
Anderson is not quite in his league imo.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Wayne Daniel better than Winston Benjamin and Patrick Patterson.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Wayne Daniel was a better bowler than all from and including Croft down. But Clive Lloyd didn’t like him.