*Official* Pakistan in England 2020

[honestbharani]

Yeah, I already mentioned somewhere else on CW that he did play a significant role in his side winning away in Australia and India. How many fast bowlers can even claim that they played a major role in their side winning in the two toughest countries for them to win at? At the same time, like I said, putting him a notch below the very best of the fast bowlers also seems fair to me. Hence my "great but not quite ATG" ranking for him.

 

[vcs]

Which modern era bowlers have actually gone to Australia and dominated like Ambrose? No one, basically. Even Steyn averaged 29. Philander and Abbott did very well but got to bowl on a Hobart greentop. Bumrah dominated but it was a weakened batting lineup.

 

[Howe_zat]

Some of the spells of reverse swing Anderson bowled on flat decks were exactly what people often stupidly claim he’s never done as well. Like the second innings at the SCG where bowling Aus out for 250 was the equivalent of bowling them out for 150 over here.

It’s such an obviously correct counter example to the claim that he can’t bowl well in conditions that don’t favour him that ignoring it makes the argument not something to be taken seriously. You can also add his record in the UAE, five-fors in South Africa, and if you’re prepared to actually look at individual performances and not statsguru, some dominant performances in batting conditions in England, like Lords 2011.

He hasn’t done this consistently, but he’s done it more often than most.

 

[wpdavid]

Which modern era bowlers have actually gone to Australia and dominated like Ambrose? No one, basically. Even Steyn averaged 29. Philander and Abbott did very well but got to bowl on a Hobart greentop. Bumrah dominated but it was a weakened batting lineup.

How did Donald go in the 1990s?

 

[vcs]

Guessing he and Pollock would have underperformed their career averages because Australia were always SA's bogey team back then.

 

[aussie tragic]

Anderson averages 3.8 wkts per match. Just because he played the longest doesn't make him great ( as per Courtney Walsh).

Real greats should at least do over 4 wkts per match

 

[wpdavid]

Guessing he and Pollock would have underperformed their career averages because Australia were always SA's bogey team back then.

I'll have a look. My memory of the 1990s is that SA drew a series or two in Australia, so there's a decent chance that their quicks did well.

 

[vcs]

So, in 40 or so years, Hadlee, Marshall and Ambrose are probably the only overseas quicksbowlers who have gone to Australia and been dominant over multiple tours.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So, in 40 or so years, Hadlee, Marshall and Ambrose are probably the only overseas quicksbowlers who have gone to Australia and been dominant over multiple tours.

If you dis-count Bumrah and Abbot because of poor batting lineups and good bowling conditions the, the vast majority of Hadlee marshall and ambrose's performances get wiped too. 80s Australia were woeful.

 

[vcs]

Small sample size also TBH. Anyway, he will clean up again this winter and put all doubts to rest

 

[wpdavid]

Allan Donald did well in his first two tours, playing two tests in each of them.
12 wickets at 22.1 in 1993/94 and 12 wickets at 17.8 in 1997/98
He struggled badly in 2001/2002 but he was well past his best by then.

Pollock did well in 1997/98; 16 wickets at 21.9
Not so well in 2001/02; 8 wickets at 39.0

 

[the big bambino]

Allan Donald did well in his first two tours, playing two tests in each of them.
12 wickets at 22.1 in 1993/94 and 12 wickets at 17.8 in 1997/98
He struggled badly in 2001/2002 but he was well past his best by then.

Pollock did well in 1997/98; 16 wickets at 21.9
Not so well in 2001/02; 8 wickets at 39.0

I get Donald playing 3 games in 93/94 with 13 wickets for 373 runs averaging just under 29. Donald averaged 31 against Australia overall. Around 27 if you are inclined to remove the stats from his last series.

 

[wpdavid]

I get Donald playing 3 games in 93/94 with 13 wickets for 373 runs averaging just under 29. Donald averaged 31 against Australia overall. Around 27 if you are inclined to remove the stats from his last series.

Somehow I managed to miss the Melbourne test when he took 1 for 108.

 

[Burgey]

I gather there’s no play then, given we’re talking about anything but this match? How’s it look for the rest of the day?

 

[wpdavid]

It's supposed to stop raining by mid-afternoon, but the outfield will probably be flooded.

 

[Groundking]

I gather there’s no play then, given we’re talking about anything but this match? How’s it look for the rest of the day?

Forcast looks fine rain wise after 12, just depends on how arsed the groundstaff are at mopping the pitch up and if we get any crappy light.

 

[morgieb]

If you dis-count Bumrah and Abbot because of poor batting lineups and good bowling conditions the, the vast majority of Hadlee marshall and ambrose's performances get wiped too. 80s Australia were woeful.

Ambrose did in the 90's too in fairness.

 

[the big bambino]

Ambrose did in the 90's too in fairness.

He did and the reason he's the best bowler imo. He gave the WI the edge over that great Australian side and was a chance to win the 96/97 series until he got injured. When he was playing I just couldn't see a way around him. When he was injured before the Adelaide test of 96/97 I was confident we'd win and post a huge score in his absence. The fact the WI still had Walsh and Bishop wasn't even a consideration. They just didn't look capable of exerting the pressure to take wickets. Australia took its opportunity to win the series. Ambrose came back for the last test and returned things to situation normal.

 

[Flem274*]

anderson can bowl well away from home provided the ball isn't a kookaburra

he had a great uae tour and 2011 ashes. everything else...mmm nah

not an atg, he's an atvg, and the english consistently taking this as an insult because we won't bow down to the h4x ball king is hilarious

 

[wpdavid]

Inspection at 3.00pm