Graham Thorpe vs Kevin Pietersen

[indiaholic]

You can have a talent for different things though. What we call talent in general use is equating talent with the ability to learn new things, fast.. When people say ABDV is more talented, what they imply is that if he put in the effort, ABDV could have been a decent approximation of Cook but Cook would have found it difficult to be a decent approximation of devilliers.

I don't think this is all talent is, tbf. Sometimes kids have a natural talent for the grind and it is arguably way more valuable than the kind talent described in the previous para.

 

[Teja.]

I once listened to this podcast which featured Gary Kasporav where one of the things he was talking about intelligence and talent in the context of really young kids playing chess.

To paraphrase, what he said was that, with the exception of the 1 in 10000 type of prodigies, the type of kids who do really well in chess are not necessarily the kids with the highest IQs or the most brilliant/effortless pattern recognition abilities at very inexperienced chess levels but rather the type of kids who have the natural level of persistence and concentration to play and solve for tons of hours at a very very young age even if they're not the most effortlessly good at thinking several steps ahead right at the beginning.

He was arguing that this was not some sign of some greater character or w/e in the latter set but a type of intelligence or talent as natural/inborn as the more traditionally recognized intelligence of the former set.

Dunno how relevant that is to the current discussion but thought it was interesting nevertheless.

 

[honestbharani]

I think it was already said in the olden days that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration and what we seem to be discussing are variants of the same thing. But it does make sense that the ability to be able to play a good shot to a very good ball and things like that, there is some level of natural "cricketing talent" that you can discern within any player. Of course, success in the game, especially at the highest level, depends on so so many more factors.

 

[grecian]

Thorpe, not a ****.

 

[cricketsavant]

Better test match batsman? One from a prolonged period of being ****e for England and the other from a brief stay at the top.

I hope you don't mean KP had a brief stay at the top. He was the best English bat for 5+ years and almost every time he performed 05, 2010 and 2012 England pulled off the remarkable.

 

[MW1304]

The England side had a brief stay at the top.

 

[Adders]

I hope you don't mean KP had a brief stay at the top. He was the best English bat for 5+ years and almost every time he performed 05, 2010 and 2012 England pulled off the remarkable.

And KP was not Englands best player in any of those series. As has often been said and it is so true, KP was a player of great innings, not a great player.

I don't believe for a minute he was Englands best player for 5 years, his claim to that mantle was for a way shorter time period.

 

[wpdavid]

Without checking, KP may have been our best batsman for about 3 years, from after the 2005 Ashes to the home series against SA in 2008. Certainly not at any stage of 2010.

 

[Howe_zat]

Without checking, KP may have been our best batsman for about 3 years, from after the 2005 Ashes to the home series against SA in 2008. Certainly not at any stage of 2010.

Agree, Pietersen was first name on the team sheet after Flintoff started going downhill until his brief captaincy. He had a big slump around 2009-10 where he didn’t score a hundred in any format, and then after that he would turn up with a fantastic innings once a series but wasn’t as big a deal for the side as Cook, Trott or Bell.

 

[trundler]

KP's best coming from 2005-08 would explain why I never got the hype

 

[wpdavid]

All I remember about KP from 2009 was the 'Dumb Slog Millionaire' headline.

 

[indiaholic]

KP's best coming from 2005-08 would explain why I never got the hype

Watching him bat when he is in form helps understand the hype.. He was imperious.

 

[trundler]

Watching him bat when he is in form helps understand the hype.. He was imperious.

And I was 3

 

[indiaholic]

And I was 3

I know, child.

 

[cricketsavant]

And KP was not Englands best player in any of those series. As has often been said and it is so true, KP was a player of great innings, not a great player.

I don't believe for a minute he was Englands best player for 5 years, his claim to that mantle was for a way shorter time period.

Huh? He was actual man of tournament for world t20 which is what I meant by 2010, till then Englands only icc trophy. In 05 he was the first one to take the fight to the aussies and in 2012 in India, as much as Cook scored heavily, KP was far more brutal against the bowlers.

Whats this nonsense about not being Englands best player? According to just about everyone in England set up he was first name on teamsheet.

All this and you think Thorpe was a better batsman. Get over it lad!

 

[honestbharani]

And I was 3

Didn't stop me from becoming a fan of Boris Becker after seeing the 1986 Wimbledon Finals. I have little to no recollection of that time except that name and I was his fan till he retired, lol.

 

[Adders]

Huh? He was actual man of tournament for world t20 which is what I meant by 2010, till then Englands only icc trophy. In 05 he was the first one to take the fight to the aussies and in 2012 in India, as much as Cook scored heavily, KP was far more brutal against the bowlers.

By 2010, I thought you were talking about the 10/11 Ashes. Amazing that you rate the T20 WC ahead of that in Englands best results in this period. Says a lot about you as a cricket fan.

Mate, 2005 KP was huge....but the series was Flintoffs. Don't particularly gaf about the 2010 T20 WC, but since it was y'know.....kind of a big deal at the time do you mind if we do talk about the 2010/11 Ashes? I was there in Adelaide for KP's double ton........incredible innings (but we've already established, great player of innings but not a great player) And again 2012......KP was epic in Mumbai Mumbai, a better innings you'd be hard pressed to find. But that series was down to Cook, our spinners and arguably Jimmy Anderson.

this nonsense about not being Englands best player? According to just about everyone in England set up he was first name on teamsheet.

LOL, I doubt that was from any one in the England camp

All this and you think Thorpe was a better batsman. Get over it lad!

Muppet. Where did I ever even say that?

 

[harsh.ag]

cricketsavant is mostly wrong, as Adders says, but KP's Mumbai knock was the most important factor in England winning that series. India were left shell shocked.

 

[trundler]

Didn't stop me from becoming a fan of Boris Becker after seeing the 1986 Wimbledon Finals. I have little to no recollection of that time except that name and I was his fan till he retired, lol.

I was a massive Ponting fanboy and cried on his retirement but this was partly because of him being Tendulkar's competition and not an Indian so I had to support him

 

[vcs]

I was a massive Ponting fanboy and cried on his retirement but this was partly because of him being Tendulkar's competition and not an Indian so I had to support him

They were both well past it by the time of Ponting's retirement TBF