Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

[vcs]

I would take Dhoni in Asia and Gilchrist outside.

 

[honestbharani]

in Tests?

In ODIs its a no brainer for me. MSD > Gilly.

 

[stephen]

Dhoni vs Gilly depends entirely on who else you want in your team IMO.

ODIs are so much more about team balance than anything else. Need an opener? Gilly for sure. Need a finisher? Dhoni absolutely. Cricket is a team game, and each position, particularly in ODI cricket, is a specialty position. I do have to say that de Kock is also worth mentioning as a keeper batsman as well. He often gets forgotten about because South Africa are terrible at world cups but he's got numbers as good as anyone else in the role. Buttler has already been mentioned but he fits perfectly into a team that has an all rounder who can bat top 6.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah QdK is a good option if you can't have Gilly and same with Buttler for MSD. In future, who knows, they may even go on to be better than Gilly and MSD were in their respective roles.

But to me, MSD > Gilly simply because there are lesser great finishers than great openers in ODIs and it is the more difficult job of the two. And it helps he is also an ATG captain. As I pointed out earlier, MSD is one of the ATGs of ODIs, I don't think Gilly gets in that top most bracket. He is a tier down and that means, unless you go for someone like AB and ask him to keep, MSD is just an obvious choice in an ATG ODI side.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah QdK is a good option if you can't have Gilly and same with Buttler for MSD. In future, who knows, they may even go on to be better than Gilly and MSD were in their respective roles.

But to me, MSD > Gilly simply because there are lesser great finishers than great openers in ODIs and it is the more difficult job of the two. And it helps he is also an ATG captain. As I pointed out earlier, MSD is one of the ATGs of ODIs, I don't think Gilly gets in that top most bracket. He is a tier down and that means, unless you go for someone like AB and ask him to keep, MSD is just an obvious choice in an ATG ODI side.

Whether there are more ATG finishers or openers doesn't really matter that much since you only need to pick two and one for an ATG XI respectively.

If you use it for an argument to say MSD > Gilly as an ODI player then yeah sure.

But anyways this has all been done to death before. We should focus on the bigger things here, like the awful lowercase 'd' in the thread title.

 

[OverratedSanity]

"Off all time" is worse

 

[ImpatientLime]

Can't recall both of them being too similar (just basing it off memory).

Imran was the main strike bowler and spearhead for the team, while Flintoff was more of a containment and "keep em tidy" type of a bowler, as opposed to someone like Darren Gough who would be the main strike bowler (and the best bowler in the team).

Both batted in the middle order, yes, but not sure how similar their roles in the team were. Would probably have to look at Flintoff's career again to remind myself.

imran was the better player but flintoff took his wickets in odis quicker than imran and gough. flintoff is one of the all time elite death bowlers. a guy with his mixture of accuracy, pace and the awkward height he released the ball from must have been an absolute nightmare to try and hit out against.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Dhoni's not definitively ahead of Gilchrist in an all time XI, but it's got nothing to do with WC finals. For all the good Gilchrist did in the finals he wouldn't have played in them if he wasn't carried there by his team.

Besides it's just too small a sample size unless you're Burgey.

pls remember that performances in world cups only count when it suits your argument. if it makes your position awkward then the sample size is simply too small.

 

[stephen]

Whether there are more ATG finishers or openers doesn't really matter that much since you only need to pick two and one for an ATG XI respectively.

If you use it for an argument to say MSD > Gilly as an ODI player then yeah sure.

But anyways this has all been done to death before. We should focus on the bigger things here, like the awful lowercase 'd' in the thread title.

You need two finishers and only one opener? ISTSL.

 

[ankitj]

I'm interested in Dhoni vs Gilchrist discussion. But I don't care about fictitious ATG XI of which we have had lot of discussions already.

If you list down 25 greatest ODI cricketers, who would be ahead between the 2?

 

[ankitj]

"Off all time" is worse

And Odl.

How did Xuhaib write like a teenager there?

 

[Bolo.]

Most great all rounders have different roles especially if we're separating WKs by batting position. Only Hadlee among those has a comparale role to Pollock but unfortunately he played too early to really tell how good he was. Imran was more comparable to Flintoff. Kapil could be replaced by Cairns or Faulkner.

Comparing across eras it tough, and I dont know much about early odis. Still though, I suspect Pollock deserves to be rated ahead as a bowler, before we even bring batting into it.

Pollock hit the number 1 ranking in his 2nd year playing and number 1 in every year for the rest of his career.

It took Hadlee about 8 years to hit number 1 and he failed to hit number 1 a couple more times later on.

Its much easier to hit number one every year in an era of more games per year, but Pollock is still pretty remarkable- he had some great contemporaries like Mcgrath and Murali who only managed it in about 1/3 of their careers, which is a far cry from Pollocks 90 something percent.

 

[Daemon]

pls remember that performances in world cups only count when it suits your argument. if it makes your position awkward then the sample size is simply too small.

Performances in world cups matter, but then going further to narrow it down to a handful of games is dubious tstl.

 

[h_hurricane]

I'm interested in Dhoni vs Gilchrist discussion. But I don't care about fictitious ATG XI of which we have had lot of discussions already.

If you list down 25 greatest ODI cricketers, who would be ahead between the 2?

I will give it a try.

1.Viv Richards
2.Sachin Tendulkar
3.Wasim Akram
4.Glenn Mcgrath
5.MS Dhoni
6.Virat Kohli
7.AB Devilliers
8.Joel Garner
9.Muthiah Muralitharan
10.Adam Gilchrist
11.Michael Bevan
12.Shaun Pollock
13.Kapil Dev
14.Imran Khan
15.Ricky Ponting
16.Shane Watson
17.Richard Hadlee
18.Andrew Symonds
19.Lance Klusener
20.Curtly Ambrose
21.Sanath Jayasuriya
22.Andrew Flintoff
23.Saqlain Mushtaq
24.Jos Butler
25.Shakib Al Hasan

 

[Migara]

No.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

No.

It has to be Jayasuriya?

 

[Migara]

Comparing across disciplines is hard. He's arguably the best keeper-bat, finisher and captain in ODIs so top 10 for sure.

In no particular order:

Viv, Sachin, Akram, Murali, McGrath, Garner, Bevan، De Villiers, Dhoni, Kohli

Probably

Gilchrist and Jayasuriya are worthy contenders there. Gilly excelled in two disciplines, Jayasuriya in all including captaincy.

 

[Migara]

It has to be Jayasuriya?

No.

Currently I would think of Viv.
Probably Virat in the future.
If some one averages 20 at ER < 4.5, now, probably that guy.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Nice lift from Naveen-ul-Haq

 

[stephen]

It shows you how much of a batsman's game ODI cricket has become that a batsman with 11000 runs at 60 isn't unquestionably the GOAT.