*Official* Pakistan in England 2020

[wpdavid]

England should go with this batting order in the 4th innings:

Burns
Woakes
Sibley
Buttler
Root
Pope
Stokes
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Archer

I was going down that route, then I'd play Woakes at 3 as I don't think Sibley benefits from dropping a place but it still brings in Root and Stokes in what I consider their best positions. Buttler's then fine at 7. But in reality I wouldn't go down that route at all.

 

[harsh.ag]

"Bat each player in their most comfortable and natural position" is not being passive.

This isn't true for Root and Stokes right now.

 

[wpdavid]

Jimmy leaking runs is a bit unusual to be honest, he’s been the most expensive quick on show in this test match. He’s bowled some good spells even in this game so it’s probably premature to write him off but, assuming he is rested for the next game, one does wonder if they’d be willing to bring him back in the final test especially if both Broad and Woakes keep taking wickets and the series is still on the line)

I really don't envy the selectors choosing our attacks for the next two tests. They'll get slaughtered whatever they do, although that shouldn't bother them. More to the point, it's just a really tough call in what's looking like a really tight series, which seems to change from match to match. Woakes has probably overtaken Archer now, but no-one was saying that a couple of weeks ago. Obviously Anderson has shown enough to be entitled to a couple of poor matches, although at some point there is going to be a valid conversation about him.

 

[Spark]

This isn't true for Root and Stokes right now.

Chases are incredibly dependent on psychology and not letting the pressure get to you. As soon as you start ****ing around with the batting order, you are implicitly breaking the normal rhythm of your innings and thus increasing the psychological discomfort on the batting side who is now batting out of their normal positions.

 

[harsh.ag]

Chases are incredibly dependent on psychology and not letting the pressure get to you. As soon as you start ****ing around with the batting order, you are implicitly breaking the normal rhythm of your innings and thus increasing the psychological discomfort on the batting side who is now batting out of their normal positions.

Disagree. As coach, talk to your team about the strategy and tactics being used, tell them why you're making the changes, and lay the responsibility on everyone to perform their assigned jobs.

 

[Spark]

Disagree. As coach, talk to your team about the strategy and tactics being used, tell them why you're making the changes, and lay the responsibility on everyone to perform their assigned jobs.

We're talking about people here. Not robots. There is no mathematical utility function to be optimised here. Don't **** around with players' natural habits and rhythms without good cause like opening with Chris Woakes who will probably just end up feeding Shaheen or Naseem and getting their confidence up early.

The goal of the coach is to get the best out of his players. Not come up with some amazing paper plan that you then blame the players for failing to execute when it likely fails, because it makes the players do things they're not entirely naturally comfortable with... like Chris Woakes opening the batting.

 

[Adders]

Man, this game is so interestingly poised. Test cricket continues to deliver. Love these 250-odd 4th innings chases, you always feel you could be about to witness something special. It's pretty important for Pakistan to get that extra 20 odd runs from here which could give them a security buffer and a chance to use the 2nd new ball.

Yet they very seldom turn out that way in reality.

 

[wpdavid]

Yet they very seldom turn out that way in reality.

I know what you mean; the batting side either collapses or chases it down with ease. Maybe the first WI test was an exception, although they chased it quite easily after losing four early wickets. I'll have to try and think of other exceptions now.

 

[Woodster]

I can see some value in putting Woakes in at three, I mean it won’t happen but it does actually make come sense. I’d leave the openers as is, they’re the opening batsmen, the best we currently have and we trust them to do their job today. Root clearly doesn’t want to bat three, Stokes is seemingly more comfortable (and more protected against the new ball) at five, and Pope and Buttler give us a bit more depth when things should in theory get easier. Should the openers put a few on then we can drop Woakes back down.

The downside is that Woakes may be a sitting duck and we may lose two quick ones early, but that’s possible anyway against the new ball.

 

[harsh.ag]

We're talking about people here. Not robots. There is no mathematical utility function to be optimised here. Don't **** around with players' natural habits and rhythms without good cause like opening with Chris Woakes who will probably just end up feeding Shaheen or Naseem and getting their confidence up early.

The goal of the coach is to get the best out of his players. Not come up with some amazing paper plan that you then blame the players for failing to execute when it likely fails, because it makes the players do things they're not entirely naturally comfortable with... like Chris Woakes opening the batting.

There is no need to blame the players if it doesn't work out, and the kind of coach who would do that is a very poor one.

I just flat out disagree with the notion that the players won't be able to adapt and it will hinder their performance.

I do agree that players haven't been conditioned to flexible orders and that's a shame imo. Teams should think about flexible batting orders and plan for those scenarios a lot more.

 

[harsh.ag]

Sticking Joe Root at 3 just because that's where he has had to bat because England want 5 frontline bowlers isn't any less wacky than having Woakes at 2/3 and getting Root back to a lower position where he can do his thing better perhaps.

 

[honestbharani]

If your entire argument is that you need to somehow let Root and Stokes bat 4 and 5, harsh, I can kinda see the point of that. But there is surely no need to rejig the entire order to make that happen. Like others pointed out, you can simply stick Woakes in at 3 and be done with it.

 

[harsh.ag]

If your entire argument is that you need to somehow let Root and Stokes bat 4 and 5, harsh, I can kinda see the point of that. But there is surely no need to rejig the entire order to make that happen. Like others pointed out, you can simply stick Woakes in at 3 and be done with it.

Yeah, that would be fine too.

I just prefer Buttler at 4 because a Stokes counterattack at 7 in such a chase could be decisive and he is the only batsman in England capable of that. Buttler has shown he can't do that in tests.

 

[Woodster]

Yeah, that would be fine too.

I just prefer Buttler at 4 because a Stokes counterattack at 7 in such a chase could be decisive and he is the only batsman in England capable of that. Buttler has shown he can't do that in tests.

You’re running the risk of arguably our best batsman running out of partners and fast. The tail could subside quickly against reverse swing and leg spin and Stokes left high and dry on 12 not out.

 

[Howe_zat]

If you looked at the odds you'd think England were chasing 200 rather than about 260.

England 2.05
Pakistan 1.80

 

[Howe_zat]

Draw is 101 if you fancy it

 

[harsh.ag]

You’re running the risk of arguably our best batsman running out of partners and fast. The tail could subside quickly against reverse swing and leg spin and Stokes left high and dry on 12 not out.

Agreed. That's definitely a risk.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Poor guy jofra getting hammered for idolizing Angus Fraser

 

[Gremlin]

England calling up Robinson for the squad for the second test.

Are they short of bowlers?

 

[wpdavid]

Draw is 101 if you fancy it

No thanks mate.

I guess the accuracy of the odds depends on who you're asking. At the risk of generalising, the Pakistani supporters on CW seem to reckon that they've blown it but the English supporters feel otherwise. I just hope that (1) we don't struggle to take those last two wickets and (2) our batsmen make a decent contest of this instead of disappearing for under 150. If so, it should be a great day's play. I'll probably be grumpy if we lose, but genuinely pleased for our Pakistani CWers.