What made the mid-1980s Indian ODI team so good?

[TheJediBrah]

Putting his stats in the modern context, his batting was Sehwag and his bowling was Mitchell Starc.

haha what trundler said.

brb adjust his batting stats for the era but leave his bowling stats

 

[h_hurricane]

haha what trundler said.

brb adjust his batting stats for the era but leave his bowling stats

There was a period in the mid 80s when Kapil was outstanding with ball and bat at the same time.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

For 4 years 1983-86, he played 66 ODIs, took 85 wickets at 22.77 at an economy rate of 3.49.

During the same period, he scored 1408 runs at 30.60 and a strike rate of 103.15.

Against the WI during this period, he averaged 31 with the bat, 26 with the ball at a similar economy rate and strike rate as above.

Quite possibly the best ODI cricketer during the time.

 

[trundler]

Yeah okay that's pretty impressive

 

[mr_mister]

woah a batting average of 30

run for the hills bowlers Kapil's gon' get ya!

 

[harsh.ag]

 

[h_hurricane]

And what would you expect from a bowling all rounder ? He was Mcgrath like for a good 4 years with the ball and Sehwag like with the bat.

Gavaskar still speaks about the impact he had leading to the 1983 WC. India hadn't defeated WI ever in an ODI pre 1983 and did so twice during the 1983 WC. But the first occasion it happened was in an ODI in Berbice where Kapil lead from the front.

72 of 38 against Marshall, Roberts, Holding and Davis.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There was a period in the mid 80s when Kapil was outstanding with ball and bat at the same time.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

For 4 years 1983-86, he played 66 ODIs, took 85 wickets at 22.77 at an economy rate of 3.49.

During the same period, he scored 1408 runs at 30.60 and a strike rate of 103.15.

Against the WI during this period, he averaged 31 with the bat, 26 with the ball at a similar economy rate and strike rate as above.

Quite possibly the best ODI cricketer during the time.

Yeah I don't think anyone's disputing that he was a great ODI cricketer

 

[h_hurricane]

But yeah did Kapil ever have a point where he had a massive difference between batting and bowling average? 32-26 or something like that before falling away at the end? or did he always hover around 31/29

This one actually made me stats crunch a bit. There was a good long period from late mid 1979 to end 1983 when Kapil was truly world class as a bowler alone in tests hovering very close to ATG level.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...an;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings

49 matches 207 wickets at 25.90(SR 51.5) with 17 5 wicket hauls and 2 10 wicket hauls. You get a whole career Andy Roberts with an even better strike rate.

He averaged close to 29 with the bat during this period with 2 hundreds and 10 fifties.

If this one doesn't convince you, I am sure nothing will

There was this famous knee injury in 1983. Had he retired then, he would have been still remembered as a great. He carried on for another 11 years without missing a single match due to injury. Messed up his bowling numbers a lot especially strike rate and wickets per match.

 

[srbhkshk]

There was a period in the mid 80s when Kapil was outstanding with ball and bat at the same time.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

For 4 years 1983-86, he played 66 ODIs, took 85 wickets at 22.77 at an economy rate of 3.49.

During the same period, he scored 1408 runs at 30.60 and a strike rate of 103.15.

Against the WI during this period, he averaged 31 with the bat, 26 with the ball at a similar economy rate and strike rate as above.

Quite possibly the best ODI cricketer during the time.

Truly Starc + Sehwag for those times.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Anyone dissing Viv Richards by comparing him to today's batsman have to bear in mind that in his day the rules weren't so heavily stacked in the batsman's favour. A top order batsman had to work a lot harder for their runs. Anyone dissing Kapil Dev should take up knitting.

 

[mr_mister]

My last Kapil comment was just being cheeky

I can understand the love for him and he's not even rated that highly anyway so all good

My Viv critique is much more passionate

 

[Engle]

When ODI's came onto the scene and gathered steam, it was generally considered that the W.Indian style of play of power hitting/power pace was ideally suited to this new form
Alternatively, the Indian style of play was generally considered the antithesis, the polar opposite style of play required to win.

What the Indians showed the world with their victory was that patiently plugging away, self-belief, focus, teamwork, not being intimidated....could wrest away the initiative.

The tortoise can beat the hare

 

[ma1978]

If you adjust his batting average upwards to be Sehwag-like then his bowling average must be Woakes or Amir

the batting average adjusts upwards somewhat, but its the strike rate that is extraordinary for the time.

 

[h_hurricane]

Who were the other good indian ODI cricketers of mid 80s ?

Just looked up and found that Dilip Vengsarkar had a very good record during the period.

Scored 2060 runs @ 42 (SR 71) between 1983-1987. Remember him playing some good knocks in 1985 WCC (watching highlights of course).

The much maligned Sunil Gavaskar's ODI record is decent during this period. Average of 38.85 with a SR of 65.49.

 

[honestbharani]

If you take 81-86 or something, Srikkanth should have a decent record too?

 

[h_hurricane]

If you take 81-86 or something, Srikkanth should have a decent record too?

Averages 27.85 with a SR of 72.18 from 1981-86.

Interestingly Srikanth averages 25.64 with the ball in ODIs overall with 2 five wicket hauls, both after 1986 though.

 

[mr_mister]

Srikkanth is like Greatbatch to me(or at least Greatbatch in the '92 WC). And yes I know Srikkanth came earlier but hear me out.

Someone I really want to like and label a pioneer in their style - but the stats just dont sync up with the hype/reputation as this explosive opener in the Jayasuriya/Gilchrist mould, a sort of blueprint for what they would do in the late 90s as an opener. Considering there were blokes from Srikkanth/Greabatch's era and before (Viv/Abbas/Dev) striking far more healthily it really comes down to how good they looked in a few knocks here and there, or even how good they looked playing certain shots rather than how good they were overall.

Like digressing a bit but watching some of Greatbatch's blitzing knocks on youtube from the '92 WC, his strikerate wasnt even that great in some of those innings where he 'dealt in boundaries'. like he got 63 off 77 against the Windies with 7 fours and 3 sixes in that tournament. Some of the shots he played on the boundary balls against Marshall/Ambrose looked amazing and very ahead of their time in their bravery and rashness(and the fact they came against Marshall/Ambrose) and like most of runs he got in that innings were scored in boundaries, but that just tells me there must have been a lot of dot balls in between the crazy shots which kinda ruins it.

Was Srikkanth similar? block block bash leave block block bash style batting? Like he wasn't doing that much different to Dean Jones in terms of strike-rate, but im guessing just the fact when he actually did go for a big shot it was a crazy eye catching aerial shot that flew to the boundary. is that what gave him his reputation? because an average of 30 or whatever needs a strike rate of 80+ to really be valuable even accounting for era. his strikerate of 72 is pretty low considering the style of batsman he apparently was

 

[vcs]

Guess Srikkanth and Greatbatch pioneered that approach but they're probably overrated. Guys like Sachin and Anwar figured out how to strike at close to 90 and do it risk-free, and pile up centuries regularly. And Jayasuriya was more explosive but less consistent.

 

[mr_mister]

Guess Srikkanth and Greatbatch pioneered that approach but they're probably overrated. Guys like Sachin and Anwar figured out how to strike at close to 90 and do it risk-free, and pile up centuries regularly. And Jayasuriya was more explosive but less consistent.

the thing is their strikerates(Srikkanth/Greatbatch) tell me they werent even taking a lot of risks. Or if they were they were only in between lots of dot balls.

Its kinda pointless if youre going to follow a risky slap to the boundary with 4-5 dots to round out the over. You may as well play 3-4 safer shots for singles and maybe the odd two.

its what bothers me about a Marlon Samuels/Chris Gayle innings in the last few years, as well as what made the 2019 WC final boundary countback rule extra stupid

 

[ma1978]

the thing is their strikerates(Srikkanth/Greatbatch) tell me they werent even taking a lot of risks. Or if they were they were only in between lots of dot balls.

Its kinda pointless if youre going to follow a risky slap to the boundary with 4-5 dots to round out the over. You may as well play 3-4 safer shots for singles and maybe the odd two.

its what bothers me about a Marlon Samuels/Chris Gayle innings in the last few years, as well as what made the 2019 WC final boundary countback rule extra stupid

people were still figuring out the one day game back then. you had jokers like Geoff Marsh who had a 55 SR considered a very good ODI player.

that's why Srikkanth and Greatbach were seen as exciting. And why Richards, Abbas, Jones, Dev were exceptions

also that SRs were lower for openers and went up in the middle orders. So their SRs were seen as quite high. And why that Tendulkar knock when he first opened the batting at a 150 SR was so revolutionary