The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[marc71178]

Shakib isn't even an option. What a joke.

Banned players presumably can't be selected.

 

[honestbharani]

Went with this side:


Warner
Rohit
Kane
Virat (c)
Smith
Stokes
De Kock (wk)
Cummins
Ashwin
Wagner
Bumrah


Cummins and Bumrah with the new ball, Wagner and Stokes for the heart and support (and magic breakthroughs) Ashwin as the main spinner, Steve Smith to back him up with leggies and KW to be the 6th bowling option on a really bad day out for the attack. Openers are weak for sure but I just don't think the other contenders were all that better anyways and at least these two will get big runs if they do get in and can be match winners on their own.

 

[ankitj]

Went with this side:

Warner
Rohit
Kane
Virat (c)
Smith
Stokes
De Kock (wk)
Cummins
Ashwin
Wagner
Bumrah


Cummins and Bumrah with the new ball, Wagner and Stokes for the heart and support (and magic breakthroughs) Ashwin as the main spinner, Steve Smith to back him up with leggies and KW to be the 6th bowling option on a really bad day out for the attack. Openers are weak for sure but I just don't think the other contenders were all that better anyways and at least these two will get big runs if they do get in and can be match winners on their own.

Only 2 variations: Latham for Rohit hometrack Sharma, Watling for De Kock. Which means 4 Kiwis in my XI

 

[stephen]

How much more does Cummins need to do before he's unequivocally in the AT Aus XI?

McGrath and Lillee are clearly 1 and 2, but Cummins is quite close now to Lindwall and Davidson (who are almost inseparable as the 3rd and 4th best Aussie quicks).

So how much longer does Cummins need to play for at his current level to be considered at least Australia's 3rd best quick of all times?

 

[stephen]

Aus ATXI:

Hayden
Simpson
Bradman
Smith
Chappell G
Border
Gilchrist+
Warne
Davidson
Lillee
McGrath

2nd XI:

Morris
Trumper
Ponting
Clarke
Harvey
S Waugh
Miller
Grout+
Lindwall
Cummins
O'Reilly

3rd XI:

Woodfull
Ponsford
McCabe
M Waugh
Walters
Hussey
Healy+
Spoffoth
Johnston
McDermott
Grimmett

 

[harsh.ag]

He's also fighting with O'Reilly for a spot in the ATXI

 

[Bolo.]

And Miller. 5 players with little to choose between, each offering different advantages in bowling style, and batting/bowling quality. But 4 of them had full careers, and one has hardly played. Im not putting a guy with a 3 year career in, unless he is clearly a massive quality upgrade (3rd XI guys).

Cummins might make it in about 4 years if he keeps up his performances, but he is nowhere near atm.

 

[Red]

How much more does Cummins need to do before he's unequivocally in the AT Aus XI?

McGrath and Lillee are clearly 1 and 2, but Cummins is quite close now to Lindwall and Davidson (who are almost inseparable as the 3rd and 4th best Aussie quicks).

So how much longer does Cummins need to play for at his current level to be considered at least Australia's 3rd best quick of all times?

Davo played 44 tests, Lindwall played 61.

I'd say when Cummins gets up around 60 tests it'd be reasonable to consider him.

 

[ankitj]

 

[stephen]

Pretty decent XI that.

 

[stephen]

Davo played 44 tests, Lindwall played 61.

I'd say when Cummins gets up around 60 tests it'd be reasonable to consider him.

Cummins only needs 43 wickets to catch up with Davidson's tally and under 90 to catch Lindwall. At Cummins' current wicket taking rate he will get there in under 20 tests time (50 tests total to catch Lindwall).

 

[h_hurricane]

There is also the small matter of Davo and Lindwall being better batsmen than Cummins if it comes to that. A big fan of Pat, but he would need to do a lot more to get there I guess. Another 100 wickets at least I would say.

A lot different from an Indian ATG XI, where I would already pick Bumrah in a heart beat, considering his competition there.

 

[stephen]

There is also the small matter of Davo and Lindwall being better batsmen than Cummins if it comes to that. A big fan of Pat, but he would need to do a lot more to get there I guess. Another 100 wickets at least I would say.

A lot different from an Indian ATG XI, where I would already pick Bumrah in a heart beat, considering his competition there.

Yeah true. Though Cummins has a better bowling average than Lindwall right now, Davidson has the better average of the three (seriously, he's one of what 3 players post WWII to take a serious amount of wickets at under 21).

 

[Bolo.]

A debatable argument can be made for Cummins having outperformed any other bowler thusfar. But 3ish years isnt a career. There have been plenty of bowlers who have started stronger than him only to fall away. Philander, Waqar etc. He has played most of his career at the age quicks typically peak at, with maybe 2 years left before starting to fall away if he follows the normal (but notably not universal) pattern.

On another note, we shouldnt be looking at number of matches, but rather number of years. Lindwall, Miller and OReilley all had long careers (with allowance for WW2) without playing too many matches.

Davidson is a little short for my taste. He isnt exactly Voges, but it still counts against him in relation to the others.

 

[Flem274*]

best english side of poms i have seen

cook
trescothick
root
kp
thorpe
stokes
prior
flintoff
swann
broad
anderson

you could argue for strauss, but i like tresco more. i went full allrounder meme, and lol @ root needing to bat #3 here. sadly no room for sidebottom. mentions to bresnan, tremlett and onions. for a brief period england had quicks pouring out their arseholes.

 

[Pothas]

That is exactly my England side although I really should have Gough or Fraser in for Flintoff.

Would like to have Trott at 3 really but can't fit him in.

 

[Pothas]

Sidebottom, Bresnan and Tremlett had me thinking of an alternative didn't play many matches but were good side but there are actually zero batsmen to pick. Apart from Ravi of course.

 

[TheJediBrah]

best english side of poms i have seen

cook
trescothick
root
kp
thorpe
stokes
prior
flintoff
swann
broad
anderson

you could argue for strauss, but i like tresco more. i went full allrounder meme, and lol @ root needing to bat #3 here. sadly no room for sidebottom. mentions to bresnan, tremlett and onions. for a brief period england had quicks pouring out their arseholes.

a lot of 5-0 Ashes losses in that bunch

 

[stephen]

a lot of 5-0 Ashes losses in that bunch

Tbf there's been a lot of 5-0 Ashes series in the last two decades

 

[Flem274*]

Sidebottom, Bresnan and Tremlett had me thinking of an alternative didn't play many matches but were good side but there are actually zero batsmen to pick. Apart from Ravi of course.

carberry was hard done by, and denly will probably have a short career that he's making a decent fist of.

due to the injury rates of bowlers compared to batsmen and the number of tests england play, even a solid cricketer can rack up a billion games before you know it. trott debuted late and still cracked 50 tests. collingwood is the same. mark butcher squeezed 70 tests out of a modest career and hick and ramps played a hilarious amount of tests compared to what they provided.