An Australian XI That Never played Tests

[GoodAreasShane]

Campbell really was a player who probably needed more clarity of role, he played a fair few games without the gloves but only really when Gilchrist was available. WA also had Mark Walsh (anyone remember him?) around for a little while, he was by all accounts a superior gloveman to Campbell but was somewhat limited with the bat and hence never got a real solid run

 

[TheJediBrah]

Campbell really was a player who probably needed more clarity of role, he played a fair few games without the gloves but only really when Gilchrist was available. WA also had Mark Walsh (anyone remember him?) around for a little while, he was by all accounts a superior gloveman to Campbell but was somewhat limited with the bat and hence never got a real solid run

I only remember Walsh from scorecards, never actually saw him play

 

[jimmy101]

It can't be right. Ryder was on the panel because he was the current captain. But he failed to make the squad so one of his last duties would have been to pick the squad's captain. I know its the 1930s but I'm sure technology was sufficiently advanced to get the names out to press the next day or shortly afterwards. Besides the squad was selected before Woodfull knew he was in the side, let alone captain. So I can't see how he could have done any lobbying beforehand or to believe he had such influence after just being appointed to lobby for anyone afterwards.

At the end of the day it makes no difference whether Woodfull lobbied for him or not. Ironmonger wasn't going to tour England in 1930 one way or another & that was 100% the board's decision. The official reason for Ironmonger's omission given by the board was that they were pursuing a youth policy heading forwards. However, this reasoning proved to be untrue as Ironmonger would continue to play for Australia following the 1930 tour. In my opinion, this leaves the idea that the board were looking to appease the MCC with Ironmonger's non-selection as the most viable reason. Moreover, the main point is that Ironmonger revived protection from the ACB, whereas Gilbert received the opposite.

 

[jimmy101]

Seems like you really to want it to be racism, more than anything else and I don't get why. It may not be coming completely out of nowhere but it is still a big stretch.

By no means a big stretch. Believe it or not, cricket in the 1930's didn't exist within a political vacuum, and Aboriginal people in those days were victims of discrimination on a daily basis. The press weren't on his side either, seeking to damage him by publishing pictures of him "chucking" or what have you.

Just look how easily someone's opinion can be swayed by presentation...

That action looks cleaner than most modern bowlers.

What does Murali gave to do with this.

*ducks*

^ Two posts apart.

 

[TheJediBrah]

By no means a big stretch. Believe it or not, cricket in the 1930's didn't exist within a political vacuum, and Aboriginal people in those days were victims of discrimination on a daily basis. The press weren't on his side either, seeking to damage him by publishing pictures of him "chucking" or what have you.

Just look how easily someone's opinion can be swayed by presentation...

Hey buddy if you really want to believe it was pure racism then go ahead, but I don't get why you do

 

[jimmy101]

Hey buddy if you really want to believe it was pure racism then go ahead, but I don't get why you do

I choose to believe it cause Gilbert's wasn't an isolated incident.

 

[the big bambino]

At the end of the day it makes no difference whether Woodfull lobbied for him or not. Ironmonger wasn't going to tour England in 1930 one way or another & that was 100% the board's decision. The official reason for Ironmonger's omission given by the board was that they were pursuing a youth policy heading forwards. However, this reasoning proved to be untrue as Ironmonger would continue to play for Australia following the 1930 tour. In my opinion, this leaves the idea that the board were looking to appease the MCC with Ironmonger's non-selection as the most viable reason. Moreover, the main point is that Ironmonger revived protection from the ACB, whereas Gilbert received the opposite.

Ironmonger found his way back in because some of the younger bowlers failed to prove themselves better and or retired as did Hurwood to make a living. Even if you allow for the questions over their actions, Ironmonger was always going to be selected simply because he was a better and more durable bowler than Gilbert.

 

[jimmy101]

Ironmonger found his way back in because some of the younger bowlers failed to prove themselves better and or retired as did Hurwood to make a living. Even if you allow for the questions over their actions, Ironmonger was always going to be selected simply because he was a better and more durable bowler than Gilbert.

No doubt Ironmonger was more durable, after all he was roughly Burgey's age at time

And Ideally, yes, the ACB would have loved to have selected Ironmonger but their hands were seemingly tied. Much like Meckiff years later, the ACB stood by Ironmonger & continued to select him in spite of the accusations led by the media. Interestingly, Meckiff would continue to get overlooked for Tests against England though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

From what I've read Meckiff was a genuine chucker and widely regarded as one, whereas Ironmonger was just quietly questioned but not many people really thought he was suspect

 

[jimmy101]

Gotta say it's good to hear you've been reading up on cricket history.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There's a lot of interesting stories out there. Seems like the players were more interesting in general too, probably as a result of not being professional, or as professional.

Ironmonger in particular fascinates me. Dude was so old. And what an alpha name.

 

[Line and Length]

Ryan Campbell was a keeper, not a specialist bat.

I considered him the context of a specialist batsman because, as a keeper, he wasn't in the same league as those in contention.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm surprised ***** doesn't post more about Ryan Campbell. Last I saw of him he was playing T20s for the Hong Kong national team, and was one of their better bowlers with darty finger spin. He would have been 46 or 47 at the time too

 

[Gnske]

There's a lot of interesting stories out there. Seems like the players were more interesting in general too, probably as a result of not being professional, or as professional.

Ironmonger in particular fascinates me. Dude was so old. And what an alpha name.

Partial to Oldfield myself. Survives getting bombed to hell at Ypres and then at the evergreen age of 93, whatever he was during Bodyline, gets skulled by Larwood without a helmet and lives to tell the tale.

Miller is probably the best representative I can think of that casual era where cricket was a thing you did for only part of the year when you weren't working at a steel mill or something as grouse as that. Especially given his attitude towards Bradman, the man who ruined cricket forever.

 

[social]

I'm not sure if this, or something similar, has been posted before but I'll have a shot at picking a good side of players who never played Tests. I'm starting with an Australian XI but, hopefully, we can look at other cricketing nations later.

Here is my XI

M.Di Venuto 24,518 FC runs @ 46.4
J.Cox 18,614 @ 42.7
J.Siddons 11,587 @ 44.9
D.Hussey 14,280 @ 50.5
M.Klinger 11,320 @ 39.3
S.Trimble 10,282 @ 41.8
D.Berry w/k 603 dismissals
D.Tazelaar 287 wickets @ 28.2
W.Holdsworth 212w @ 32.7
E.Gilbert 87w @ 28.9
D.Hourne 164 w @ 28.7

12th man D.Hill 7894 runs @ 40.1

The bowling department might lack a little depth though there are some interesting inclusions.

Eddie Gilbert, in one match against the touring West Indian team, took 5/65. Despite his success, it is unlikely that he was ever seriously considered for the Australian Test team due to doubts about his action and his Aboriginality. Don Bradman describes the five balls he faced from Gilbert in 1931 when he dismissed him for a duck as "The fastest he had experienced in his career."
Alan McGilvray said he had "absolutely no doubt" that Gilbert was "the fastest bowler I ever saw" and that "no matter how I analyse cricket down the years, I cannot imagine anybody bowling a ball faster than Eddie Gilbert". Of the legality of Gilbert's action, McGilvray commented, "It was hard to tell whether he actually chucked or not, because he let the ball go with such a fling of his right arm you got precious little sight of it."

David Hourne couldn't make the Australian Test side despite the spin stocks being depleted during the Packer era. Bruce Yardley, Jim Higgs, Tony Mann and Peter Sleep were all selected ahead of him. Perhaps it was his batting and fielding that counted against him. Ian Chappell wrote in a 1977 article that Hourn and fellow spinner Jim Higgs "in my opinion neither of them are real cricketers. By that I mean they are only bowlers, not cricketers. They are both well below standard as fieldsmen and batsmen."

Have I missed anyone?

Pretty sure that Hourn had a fair record against Chappell in Shield

Could really bowl but was nearly blind and not athletic at all

I am actually amazed that he averaged 6 in fc with the bat as I can’t remember him hitting a ball in the few games I played against him

Had one of the great nicknames and is a ripper bloke

 

[Flametree]

I'd also include Jock Livingston :
https://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6304.html
15,000 first class runs at 45, including averaging 50 in the "tests" the Commonwealth xi played against India, while playing as keeper.

 

[tony p]

I'd also include Jock Livingston :
https://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6304.html
15,000 first class runs at 45, including averaging 50 in the "tests" the Commonwealth xi played against India, while playing as keeper.

i have a team of players, many not mentioned earlier in the thread, including jock livingstone, 6 including livingstone played mostly county cricket, however, none would have been out of place in the test team of their day.

dene hills, tas, 7894@40.07, 21 cent.
frank tarrant, vic & middx, 17952@36.41, 33 cent, 1512 wkts@17.49
jock livingstone, n.s.w. & northants, 15269@45.04, 34 cent.
f.c.( cecil) thompson, qld, 4132@42.16, 11 cent.
james brayshaw, w.a.& s.a., 4934@42.53, 10 cent.
ken grieves, n.s.w. & lanc, 22454@33.66, 29 cent., 610 catches + 4 stumpings
vic jackson, n.s.w. & leic, 15698@28.43, 21 cent, 965 wkts@24.73
j.a. ( john) cuffe, n.s.w. & worc, 7476@22.25, 4 cent, 738 wkts@25.47
chris hartley, (w.k), qld, 6138@34.48, 10 cent, 547 catches, 17 stumpings
jack manning, s.a. & northants, 513 wkts@22.73
wayne holdsworth, n.s.w., 212 wkts@32.75

a few lesser names, however a pretty decent team, the forgotten hills, underated brayshaw, and in grieves, one of the finest catches in the history of the game, 6 in one innings against sussex, 8 in the match.

they would hold their own pretty well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

chris hartley, (w.k), qld, 6138@34.48, 10 cent, 547 catches, 17 stumpings

Incredibly high catch:stumping ratio. Indicates how little he kept up to the stumps, and how little spin bowling Queensland utilised during his time.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Incredibly high catch:stumping ratio. Indicates how little he kept up to the stumps, and how little spin bowling Queensland utilised during his time.

Not quite fair that. Daniel Doran was around returning his usual innings figures of 8 - 0 - 40 - 0 pretty much every game

 

[Line and Length]

i have a team of players, many not mentioned earlier in the thread, including jock livingstone, 6 including livingstone played mostly county cricket, however, none would have been out of place in the test team of their day.

dene hills, tas, 7894@40.07, 21 cent.
frank tarrant, vic & middx, 17952@36.41, 33 cent, 1512 wkts@17.49
jock livingstone, n.s.w. & northants, 15269@45.04, 34 cent.
f.c.( cecil) thompson, qld, 4132@42.16, 11 cent.
james brayshaw, w.a.& s.a., 4934@42.53, 10 cent.
ken grieves, n.s.w. & lanc, 22454@33.66, 29 cent., 610 catches + 4 stumpings
vic jackson, n.s.w. & leic, 15698@28.43, 21 cent, 965 wkts@24.73
j.a. ( john) cuffe, n.s.w. & worc, 7476@22.25, 4 cent, 738 wkts@25.47
chris hartley, (w.k), qld, 6138@34.48, 10 cent, 547 catches, 17 stumpings
jack manning, s.a. & northants, 513 wkts@22.73
wayne holdsworth, n.s.w., 212 wkts@32.75

a few lesser names, however a pretty decent team, the forgotten hills, underated brayshaw, and in grieves, one of the finest catches in the history of the game, 6 in one innings against sussex, 8 in the match.

they would hold their own pretty well.

An interesting and strong line-up. I initially had Holdsworth included and Hills as 12th man and had considered James Brayshaw.. I later, reluctantly, added Hartley at the expense of Darren Berry. I note the others you mention played a lot of their first class cricket in county cricket and, although I later added Bill Alley (desperate for an all-rounder) I am guilty of not delving deep enough into Australian players who played overseas. Tarrant would definitely qualify on pure statistics and was a real all-round talent. His great bowling average was boosted by playing in India and bowling on matting.
Thanks for the contribution!