Bigger Playa: Miller vs Botham

[Tom Flint]

Average at best lol

 

[Lillian Thomson]

These days a Test tour is popping in for three weeks to play the series and then buggering off again, plus the wives are often invited at some point anyway. In the old days a tour might mean 4 or 5 months away from home and a lot of blokes can't go that long without having their tyres rotated.

 

[Tom Flint]

One modern England opener can't even wait 10 days for his other half to arrive on tour

 

[Engle]

While Miller may have the better career stats, Botham was the more colorful character who brought more to the cricketing table.

 

[marc71178]

Botham is the most overrated cricketer I’ve ever known. I’ve seen him picked in experts top 6 players of all time! I’ve seen him in peoples dream teams. He has a knighthood. And I still have no idea why. The guy was average at best. Hadlee dev khan are far better. Personally I think Flintoff and stokes are miles ahead. This is nothing personal and I’m a proud Englishman but he’s so overrated. He’s a famous for “clearing bars” when he came into bat. How pathetic

Ok

 

[Burgey]

If it’s about bedroom prowess (does that count as filter avoidance) it’s certainly Botham. Ask a string of hotel employees worldwide. Definitely quantity over quality though.

I think this is a decidedly 50:50 call at best tbh. Miller shagged Princess Margaret, for one. Counts for plenty

While Miller may have the better career stats, Botham was the more colorful character who brought more to the cricketing table.

Again, I don’t know that that’s fair tbh. The stuff you hear about Miller is ridiculous. Would have blokes over to his place during a home test, open a bottle of scotch and throw the lid away. No one allowed to leave until it was gone.

Plus, he always gets extra points in my eyes for literally running over gordon bray, who had fallen asleep in Millers driveway during a boozy night in the 80s. Nugget had gone out to get more booze and cleaned gordon up on his return

Like I read about them one time - both stars, but Botham was a pop star, Miller a movie star. Matinee idol looks with it too

 

[Burgey]

I mean...

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There are pictures out there someone of when agent Tim Hudson tried to turn Botham into a Hollywood star. Probably best not published on a cricket forum.
Botham as a cricketer is probably among the top half dozen most gifted all around players ever. If he'd spent time in the nets instead of the pub and kept himself fitter as he got older his record could have been untouchable. I get the impression that Miller might have been quite similar, but before my time and a different county so I'm not as familiar with him.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think this is a decidedly 50:50 call at best tbh. Miller shagged Princess Margaret, for one. Counts for plenty



Again, I don’t know that that’s fair tbh. The stuff you hear about Miller is ridiculous. Would have blokes over to his place during a home test, open a bottle of scotch and throw the lid away. No one allowed to leave until it was gone.

Plus, he always gets extra points in my eyes for literally running over gordon bray, who had fallen asleep in Millers driveway during a boozy night in the 80s. Nugget had gone out to get more booze and cleaned gordon up on his return

Like I read about them one time - both stars, but Botham was a pop star, Miller a movie star. Matinee idol looks with it too

I reckon we've got a couple here who know very little about Miller but a lot about Botham so have unthinkingly decided to get on the "Botham was more of x/better at y" wagon without any actual reason

 

[trundler]

It's a vert apt comparison. From what I know of the 2 both were gifted players who could make it as frontline bowlers easily whilst having better batting ability than their numbers suggest. Both probably the most balanced all rounders ever. Both have a pretty decent number of 100s and 5fers in tests as well as FC cricket so you know their averages don't flatter them.

 

[h_hurricane]

Not sure if England First was sarcastic in his post, but have to agree that Ian Botham is one of the most over rated cricketers of all time. Most elite all rounders maintain peak fitness for well over a decade, some close to 2 decades like Sobers and Kallis but in Botham's case it was all over in a dream period lasting a little over half a decade. Even during his peak, a lot of his best performances came against Packer inflicted weak teams and he was notoriously poor against WI.

The bloke was a match winner and an ATG but just does not belong to the top tier all rounders like Sobers, Kallis, Imran and Miller.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

His trough is pretty long as well right ? Here are things that could be held against Beefy.

1. He was hardly 30 when his decline started. An unnaturally young age. In fact, protected his excellent overall record by playing less and less(only 11 tests in his last 5 years) when he declined.
2. A total no show against the best team of his generation.
3. A record built upon bashing mediocre(though not overly poor) teams. Averages 70 odd with the bat against a **** Indian bowling attack. In fact, his batting average drags below 30 against all other teams combined.

I’m not sure Miller was the better batsman. Miller feasted on mediocre West Indian attack at the time when Worrell used to open the bowling. Alf Valentine and Ramadhin were notable bowlers from the the team. His four centuries came playing against that team. Heck Walcott used to bowl too and got his wicket. The first century came in a run fest against England but his second one where he should get the credit as he scored most of the runs and a match winning one (against Bedser and co). Average close to mid 55 against WI and 33 against England against whom he played majority of his matches.

 

[AndrewB]

Even during his peak, a lot of his best performances came against Packer inflicted weak teams

That's not really true; in Australia in 1978-9 he was consistent but didn't do anything remarkable - no hundreds or 5-fors. His batting and bowling averages were both considerably better against the full Aussie team in 1979-80.

 

[trundler]

Both Ashes heroes. Wonder who makes it ahead of the other in an Ashes team.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This waffle about how overrated Botham is would be laughable if it wasn’t so embarrassing for what purports to be a cricket forum.

 

[trundler]

It's classic samplesizelol reasoning.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Imran or hadlee has no chance to miller in batting comparison. But Botham surely does. There is a case for kapil too I would imagine. Kapil faced some brutal attacks in his life consistently

 

[Red]

This waffle about how overrated Botham is would be laughable if it wasn’t so embarrassing for what purports to be a cricket forum.

Purveyed by guys who look at statsguru briefly and think him overrated.

Even using statsguru badly, you've got a guy who was more or less the equivalent statistically to Broad and Anderson in terms of bowling, with the added addition of having an aura around his batting something like Gilly. The guy was a phenomenal cricketer, just a shame he wasn't more disciplined in terms of fitness at the end of his career.

 

[Red]

Miller still heaps better though...

 

[stephen]

Botham was like Broad with the ball and Stokes with the bat. Capable of brilliance with both but inconsistent, just like both.

Miller was Rabada with the ball and Stokes with the bat. Better than Botham and a genuine superstar. If her played today he'd easily be the biggest star in the world.