Great domestic sides of the past

[honestbharani]

Julian was in there sometime too, right?

 

[wpdavid]

Julian was in there sometime too, right?

I genuinely don't remember him playing for us, but cricinfo reckon you're right. Maybe in the mid-1990s before we started winning the CC again in the late 1990s?

 

[honestbharani]

There was a game when you needed something ridiculous like 350 odd in a day and he came out to open. Was an exciting day's play to follow, TBF. Ali Brown played a very fast knock I think, but in the end it was left to Thorpe and Stewart to see the game through to a draw.

 

[AndrewB]

I think your first bit is key. The rest of the side was OK but no great shakes; Rose, Denning, Marks, Roebuck, Dredge and a bunch of guys not even as good as them. So they were good enough to win a few one-day cups, but rarely even close to winning the CC.

Middlesex had a more than handy side in the early 1980s. Certainly a very strong attack (Daniel, Van de Bijl, Edmonds, Emburey etc.), and better than average batting too.

Surrey had an outstanding line-up in the 1950s; May, Barrington, Loader, Laker, Lock et al. I've probably forgotten several very fine players there.
Ditto Yorkshire in the 1960s; Boycott, Sharp, Close, Hampshire, Trueman, Nicholson and several others who escape me right now.

In the late 70s/early 80s Somerset were a decent county side, though (as you say) never that close to winning the championship.
In 1985 and 86, when Garner was seldom fully fit and past his peak, they had a very weak bowling side and finished in the bottom two (and didn't do much in the one-day competitions either).

Middlesex at one point in (I think) 1981 had an XI who had all played Test cricket.

Alec Bedser was the other star player for Surrey in the 50s.

 

[AndrewB]

I genuinely don't remember him playing for us, but cricinfo reckon you're right. Maybe in the mid-1990s before we started winning the CC again in the late 1990s?

Looks like he played just the one season (1996), though he was pretty successful, averaging 36 and 28 in the championship.

 

[wpdavid]

Middlesex at one point in (I think) 1981 had an XI who had all played Test cricket.

I think we need to have a go at this.
Brearley, Radley, Gatting, Barlow, Butcher, Downton, Emburey, Edmonds, Selvey and Daniel. Did Jeff Thomson play for them too? Big Vince wouldn't have played test cricket, I suppose.
I reckon I'm short of an opening batsman there, unless Graham Barlow had moved up the order by then.

 

[wpdavid]

I think we need to have a go at this.
Brearley, Radley, Gatting, Barlow, Butcher, Downton, Emburey, Edmonds, Selvey and Daniel. Did Jeff Thomson play for them too? Big Vince wouldn't have played test cricket, I suppose.
I reckon I'm short of an opening batsman there, unless Graham Barlow had moved up the order by then.

Here we are ..
https://cricketarchive.com/Middlesex/Seasons/1981_County_Championship.html
Looks like I called it right about Barlow opening some of the time, and also about Thomson. I hadn't realised that Wilf Slack also played in that season. He went on to play a few tests in the mid-80s of course.
Minor point of interest was Shakoor Rana umpiring in one of the matches against Essex.

 

[Tom Flint]

I remember Surrey had a host of international players even in the mid to late 90s. Were insanely strong in whatever county games I saw.

I was just about to say Surrey late 1990s, I remember playing international cricket captain and them winning everything each year. They were the real Madrid of county cricket.

 

[AndrewB]

Here we are ..
https://cricketarchive.com/Middlesex/Seasons/1981_County_Championship.html
Looks like I called it right about Barlow opening some of the time, and also about Thomson. I hadn't realised that Wilf Slack also played in that season. He went on to play a few tests in the mid-80s of course.
Minor point of interest was Shakoor Rana umpiring in one of the matches against Essex.

Yeah, pretty sure that that XI against Essex in the first game of the season was the first CC side who had all played Test cricket. Noticeable that they had much the worse of a draw, despite Essex only having 4 Test cricketers (plus McEwan who presumably would have played for SA).

In that return game against Essex you mentioned, I see Middlesex forfeited their bonus points because they picked an unregistered player (CRV Taylor as stand-in keeper, with Downton playing in the Test) - didn't know that ever happened.

 

[Tom Flint]

The Yorkshire side that won the championship twice a few years ago must have had 7/8 internationals in the squad, lyth, root, Bairstow, overseas, Bresnan, Rashid, Sidebottom.

 

[Tom Flint]

I think the yorkshire 2016 squad would hsve included,
Lyth
Bairstow
Williamson
Root
Ballance

Willey
Bresnan
Rashid
Plunkett
Sidebottom

Just one middle order batsman short of a half decent test side

 

[Red]

The sides in this match were handy:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...a-vs-new-south-wales-sheffield-shield-1995-96

WA had Hussey, Langer, Martyn, Moody, Gilchrist, Julien, Angel and Reid.

NSW had Taylor, Slater, S Waugh, M Waugh, Bevan, Matthews, S Lee and McGrath.

One and a half test sides between the two sides.

At the same time, these two sides were playing:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...eensland-vs-victoria-sheffield-shield-1995-96

Queensland had Hayden, Love, Law, Border, Maher, Seccombe, Kasprowicz, McDermott and Rackemann.

Vic had Elliot, Jones, Hodge, Reiffel, Warne, Fleming and Williams.

Pretty strong 4 sides.

These 4 domestic sides would easily beat plenty of test sides that have been turned out by some nations. What an era.

 

[Red]

I remember we used to get a channel called Australia Network on cable around then. They had this school gameshow thing called "Amazing" but they also showed highlights of some of the Shield games.and I do remember seeing some NSW games around this time. Found it weird that they had Steve Waugh at 3 and Mark at 4, but when they played for Aus, Steve moved down to 5 but Mark stayed at 4.

Seems like Mark Waugh was Tendulkar before Tendulkar himself was, in refusing to bat outside a particular number.

I think Mark definitely preferred #4 because it meant he could have a nap while the openers were in.

Steve batted at #3 for a few tests, and he did ok there (made 100 against Ambrose, Bishop and Walsh), but his skills were better utilized down at #5, as he was the master of guiding the innings. In addition, we had Boon there thru Waugh's early days, then Langer was there for a while before Langer went to open so Ponting could jump up to #3 where he stayed.

 

[AndrewB]

Notts in 1887 had Shrewsbury, Scotton, Selby, Barnes, Gunn, Flowers, Sherwin, Shaw and Attewell. Plus Bill Lockwood, before he moved to Surrey (or had played Tests).

 

[a massive zebra]

Yorkshire in the 1930s had Herbert Sutcliffe, Len Hutton, Maurice Leyland, Arthur Mitchell, Wilf Barber, Arthur Wood, Hedley Verity, George Macaulay and Bill Bowes, all of whom played for England. They won the county championship seven times in 10 years.

 

[a massive zebra]

Yorkshire in the first few years of the 1900s had J.T. Brown, David Denton, Frank Mitchell, Stanley Jackson, George Hirst, Wilfred Rhodes, Ted Wainwright and Schofield Haigh, all of whom played international cricket. They easily won the county championship every year between 1900 and 1902, winning 49 matches and losing only 2. They didn't lose any of their 41 away matches over this period, and at home they were unbeaten in their 38 matches against everyone except Somerset. The Surrey side of the 1950s was not this dominant, and generally lost a few matches each year.

 

[trundler]

Yorkshire in the first few years of the 1900s had J.T. Brown, David Denton, Frank Mitchell, Stanley Jackson, George Hirst, Wilfred Rhodes, Ted Wainwright and Schofield Haigh, all of whom played international cricket. They easily won the county championship every year between 1900 and 1902, winning 49 matches and losing only 2. They didn't lose any of their 41 away matches over this period, and at home they were unbeaten in their 38 matches against everyone except Somerset. The Surrey side of the 1950s was not this dominant, and generally lost a few matches each year.

Did part of this have something to do with the newly discovered art of swing bowling? Was it a novelty like the googly in its early days?

 

[AndrewB]

Yorkshire in the first few years of the 1900s had J.T. Brown, David Denton, Frank Mitchell, Stanley Jackson, George Hirst, Wilfred Rhodes, Ted Wainwright and Schofield Haigh, all of whom played international cricket. They easily won the county championship every year between 1900 and 1902, winning 49 matches and losing only 2. They didn't lose any of their 41 away matches over this period, and at home they were unbeaten in their 38 matches against everyone except Somerset. The Surrey side of the 1950s was not this dominant, and generally lost a few matches each year.

Yes, they had an extraordinary match against Somerset in 1901: Somerset 87 & 630 v Yorkshire 325 & 113; and then lost to them again in 1902.

FWIW, TCF Prittie in "Cricket North and South" rated the 1925 Yorkshire team (Holmes, Sutcliffe, Oldroyd, Leyland, Rhodes, Kilner, Robinson, Lupton, Macaulay, Dolphin, Waddington) as stronger than their 30s sides. From 1922-26, they had 95 wins and only 6 losses, winning the championship in the first four years and finishing just behind Lancs in the 1926.

 

[the big bambino]

Terence Prittie was an utter tit.

 

[jimmy101]

Surrey in the 1950's been mentioned yet?