The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah you also have to take into account that Shield bowlers from the 90s and early-00s were bowling to much better batsmen

 

[stephen]

I cannot agree at all, it isn't even especially close. Dorff is a bit of an outlier though, definitely think he has more to like about him than the guys who do dominate the Shield wickets list, but with his back being completely screwed he's unlikely to play much if any red ball cricket again. Bird is pretty good, you are probably right in that I was judging him a bit too harshly on the basis of that Boxing Day Ashes test, but definitely still a tier below Bichel.



Don't see how I'm the one wearing rose tinted glasses at all. You rated Luke Feldman and he's pretty dreadful, so yeah I can't agree with you there

Feldman was always a decent domestic bowler. Never would have survived at the top level.

The batsmen were better in the 90s/00s generation but I really don't believe the bowlers were. Without McGrath and Warne we were almost beaten at home by India who didn't even have a decent pace bowler.

Now I live Bichel and Kasper but neither have a better test record than Bird. Rose tinted glasses IMO.

That's not to say Tremain isn't overrated.

 

[Burgey]

No coincidence that Siddle bowled faster when he drank and ate meat:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cri...-life-during-test-career-20200311-p54938.html

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Feldman was always a decent domestic bowler. Nope. He was shite

The batsmen were better in the 90s/00s generation but I really don't believe the bowlers were. Don't agree, but I can understand where you are coming from

Now I live Bichel and Kasper but neither have a better test record than Bird. On raw numbers alone this is true, but off a smallish sample size. Wouldn't get that impression on watching them though

That's not to say Tremain isn't overrated. Now this I agree on

Responses in bold

 

[Flem274*]

from the outside, i think australia has better depth now. brett lee doesn't get near the test side now. perennial squad bowler imo. i don't see kaspa or bichel cracking the current team either. cummins, haze, pattinson and starc are just better than those guys and one will always be on the bench.

 

[SteveNZ]

from the outside, i think australia has better depth now. brett lee doesn't get near the test side now. perennial squad bowler imo. i don't see kaspa or bichel cracking the current team either. cummins, haze, pattinson and starc are just better than those guys and one will always be on the bench.

I don't think you can view Lee in the context of this era, however. He was the fire that complimented the Gillespie, McGrath pace triumvirate. He was allowed to be who he was because McGrath was so parsimonious, Warne was doing his thing, peak Gillespie brought 140 and accuracy etc. He never had to be anything else but raw pace. Don't think it's fair to say Lee averaged 30 and Starc is 150km and averages less, so Lee doesn't make the side. However, I'm a massive Lee sycophant so who knows. He was a gem. Exclude Holding and I have never enjoyed watching a bowler run in with the athleticism that Lee did.

Genuinely sucks as a commentator though, unfortunately.

 

[SteveNZ]

Not certain the depth now is better, either. Isn't consistency of fitness relevant too? Bichel and Kasper were always ready to go. Joe Mennie would never have been a thing in their era.

Lee Gillespie McGrath Bichel Kasper

Starc Haze Cummins Pattinson Neser

Pretty close

 

[honestbharani]

I think Kasper is rather under rated. He was the difference between even the ATG Aussie side winning and losing in the SC.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

from the outside, i think australia has better depth now. brett lee doesn't get near the test side now. perennial squad bowler imo. i don't see kaspa or bichel cracking the current team either. cummins, haze, pattinson and starc are just better than those guys and one will always be on the bench.

Yeah that isn't really my point though. The dream/meme quartet are obviously absolute quality but things fall away pretty sharply after that

Not certain the depth now is better, either. Isn't consistency of fitness relevant too? Bichel and Kasper were always ready to go. Joe Mennie would never have been a thing in their era.

Lee Gillespie McGrath Bichel Kasper

Starc Haze Cummins Pattinson Neser

Pretty close

No I don't really think it is. I would also add Paul Reiffel and Damien Fleming as easily above the Neser tier. Then a good 5 or 6 others probably on par.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah even just talking about Queensland alone you had Bichel, Kasprowicz, Dale, Noffke, Dawes (and maybe others I can't remember) who were all Neser-tier or above

 

[stephen]

There were more Bird- level bowlers in that era perhaps but we have now bowlers right now who are better than Lee/Bichel/Kasper level. Even if I grant that Gillespie was better than Hazlewood (which he wasn't), Cummins is at or around McGrath level and Hazlewood, Starc and Pattinson are easily above Lee's level.

Lee had all the physical attributes needed in a quick bowler except the mind. He was too short or too full in tests and resorted to bouncer- Yorker strategies which weren't his strength. The few times he bowled line and length (start and end of his career) were by far his most productive.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There were more Bird- level bowlers in that era perhaps but we have now bowlers right now who are better than Lee/Bichel/Kasper level. Even if I grant that Gillespie was better than Hazlewood (which he wasn't), Cummins is at or around McGrath level and Hazlewood, Starc and Pattinson are easily above Lee's level.

Lee had all the physical attributes needed in a quick bowler except the mind. He was too short or too full in tests and resorted to bouncer- Yorker strategies which weren't his strength. The few times he bowled line and length (start and end of his career) were by far his most productive.

As someone mentioned though, that was his role in the team and was dictated by having McGrath, Gillespie and co. at the other end doing what they do

You're right that Lee bowling more conventionally was probably a better bowler, the best I saw from him was with the new ball in ODIs, which is still IMO the best I've seen anyone bowl with a new white ball

 

[stephen]

As someone mentioned though, that was his role in the team and was dictated by having McGrath, Gillespie and co. at the other end doing what they do

You're right that Lee bowling more conventionally was probably a better bowler, the best I saw from him was with the new ball in ODIs, which is still IMO the best I've seen anyone bowl with a new white ball

The problem was he was genuinely rubbish at the role. If he kept doing what wasn't working that makes him worse. Much better to keep piling on the pressure.

 

[Burgey]

Lee is comfortably the worst bowler to have taken 300 test wickets. He had a terrific first 8 tests or so then a good 18 months at the end of his career. In between he was cod ordinary.

Woeful human being too.

 

[cnerd123]

Lee had all the physical attributes needed in a quick bowler except the mind. He was too short or too full in tests and resorted to bouncer- Yorker strategies which weren't his strength. The few times he bowled line and length (start and end of his career) were by far his most productive.

sounds like a typical fast bowler to me tbh

 

[Kirkut]

Unpopular opinion: Not sure how many would agree but Shoaib Akhtar at his peak looked more fearsome than Michael Holding at his peak.

 

[Kirkut]

Sehwag albeit a bad player of fast bowling was genuinely gifted. I am still trying to make sense of his 201* at Galle.

 

[SteveNZ]

Lee is comfortably the worst bowler to have taken 300 test wickets. He had a terrific first 8 tests or so then a good 18 months at the end of his career. In between he was cod ordinary.

Woeful human being too.

Really? How so?

 

[SteveNZ]

As someone mentioned though, that was his role in the team and was dictated by having McGrath, Gillespie and co. at the other end doing what they do

You're right that Lee bowling more conventionally was probably a better bowler, the best I saw from him was with the new ball in ODIs, which is still IMO the best I've seen anyone bowl with a new white ball

Yeah, if they'd required him to do that line and length role he'd have possibly had a better record. He did it very well when asked to. But they asked him to bowl fast, and bowl two lengths. No doubt McGrath got a few at the other end when his 130km odd length felt non-life threatening.

 

[Burgey]

Really? How so?

He’s a Tory for one. There’s other stuff but it’s not for here tbh. Nothing illegal or even inappropriate, I wish to emphasise. But stuff which doesn’t reflect well on him as a bloke.