The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[h_hurricane]

Mankads brilliantly as well.

 

[Logan]

My bowling attack for pure entertainment would be :

Shoaib Akhtar

Jeff Thomson

Michael Holding

Mitchell Johnson

 

[Coronis]

Sorry, Ashwin was a typo. Honestly I was mainly focusing on batsmen sith the highest strike rates, not trying to pick a proper team.

 

[Red]

I'd replace Hadlee with Kapil or Botham. Hadlee was a technically correct batsman, not so much a slogger.

 

[ataraxia]

I'd replace Hadlee with Kapil or Botham. Hadlee was a technically correct batsman, not so much a slogger.

Kapil's already in there.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

A Near-Reasonable England XI

J Hobbs
H Sutcliffe
L Hutton
WG Grace
W Hammond
B Stokes
A Flintoff
I Botham
A Knott
J Laker
SF Barnes

 

[Coronis]

A Near-Reasonable England XI

J Hobbs
H Sutcliffe
L Hutton
WG Grace
W Hammond
B Stokes
A Flintoff
I Botham
A Knott
J Laker
SF Barnes

You weaken the bowling quite a lot by putting all three allrounders in.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Yeah, it's more MemeTeam than Dreamteam really.

It's a less crazy config for England than other nations though as there aren't heaps of ATG quicks that you're leaving out (Botham arguably makes an actual Best of England team for his bowling alone). If picking a serious team you'd want Trueman in though at the very least.

 

[ataraxia]

A Near-Reasonable England XI

J Hobbs
H Sutcliffe
L Hutton
WG Grace
W Hammond
B Stokes
A Flintoff
I Botham
A Knott
J Laker
SF Barnes

Well at least that top 5 is my top 5 (which doesn't happen much at all), so being a bit more reasonable here my side is:

JB Hobbs
H Sutcliffe
L Hutton
WG Grace*
WR Hammond
DCS Compton
APE Knott +
GA Lohmann
H Verity
FS Trueman
SF Barnes

I don't rate Botham's bowling enough for his to come in to the side ahead of Lohmann (Grace has got the 5th bowler covered) especially when Lohmann had a strong batting average too. Second XI:

G Boycott
AN Cook
KS Ranjitsinhji
KF Barrington
PBH May*
LEG Ames +
W Rhodes
MW Tate
IT Botham
JC Laker
RGD Willis

Rhodes is playing as a batting all-rounder.

GA Gooch
CB Fry*
JE Root
KP Pietersen
EH Hendren
FE Woolley
MJ Prior +
A Flintoff
JM Anderson
AV Bedser
DL Underwood

Needed Flintoff there for the batting. Prior underrated.

 

[Red]

Had Neil Wagner worked his way into a NZ all time XI now?

Bert Sutcliffe
Glenn Turner
Kane Williamson *
Martin Crowe
Ross Taylor
Brendon McCullum +
Chris Cairns
Richard Hadlee
Dan Vettori
Neil Wagner
Shane Bond


BJ Watling could replace McCullum for the same set up to work.

 

[Flem274*]

nzers can be tricky to rate against each other since some of the best suffer from samplesizelol which means you need to either rely on contemporary opinion (my opinion on that is well known) or delve into the 'new zealanders v australians/englanders' fc stuff that still had loads of test players involved. ftr my 3 specialist pacers are hadlee, cowie, bond. wagner is now 4th for me though. also watling definitely ahead of mccullum as keeper batsman (baz would have retired early with back issues if he hadn't dropped the gloves and then he'd never have been captain fantastic - i seperate mccullum the keeper bat and mccullum the specialist batsman)

here's my 'english players i've seen' team

cook
trescothick
root
kp
thorpe
stokes
prior
flintoff
swann
gough
anderson

i know, i know, root at #3 but man you juggle that middle order. im not putting some spud like vaughan in there either.

 

[Red]

nzers can be tricky to rate against each other....

Who would you have as your NZ all time XI?


In terms of Eng players i've seen:


Cook
Gooch
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Stewart +
Flintoff
Swann
Gough
Anderson

serious #batdeep


* I did see Botham playing, but not in his pomp

 

[h_hurricane]

A 20+ year career team.

Jack Hobbs
Bob Simpson
George Headley
Sachin Tendulkar
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Garry Sobers
Colin Cowdrey(wk)
Frank Woolley
Mushtaq Mohammad
Wilfred Rhodes
Imran Khan

Deep batting lineup and wierd keeping choice (lol). But Cowdrey was the only one with a bit of keeping credentials (in school cricket admitedly).

 

[AndrewB]

You could pick Freddie Brown for a more balanced attack.

 

[Flem274*]

Who would you have as your NZ all time XI?

hmm for modern nz conditions i tend to go with

turner
sutcliffe
williamson
crowe (c)
taylor
watling (wk)
cairns
vettori
hadlee
bond
cowie

im tempted to put in fleming or captaincy era mccullum at #6 because i don't like alleged fixer cairns being in the side, but he needs to be there. bruce taylor is always close to my side (used to be in it) because by all accounts he was great with the ball on flat decks and unlike wagner he was a genuine bowling allrounder. from what i've seen, and in cowies case researched, the three quicks there are several levels above the wagner/boult/cairns/bruce taylor tier.

 

[Red]

hmm for modern nz conditions i tend to go with

turner
sutcliffe
williamson
crowe (c)
taylor
watling (wk)
cairns
vettori
hadlee
bond
cowie

im tempted to put in fleming or captaincy era mccullum at #6 because i don't like alleged fixer cairns being in the side, but he needs to be there. bruce taylor is always close to my side (used to be in it) because by all accounts he was great with the ball on flat decks and unlike wagner he was a genuine bowling allrounder. from what i've seen, and in cowies case researched, the three quicks there are several levels above the wagner/boult/cairns/bruce taylor tier.

Yeh, pretty much agree 100%, apart from I think I'd just take Wagner now because I'm in love with him. He's your Merv Hughes, imo

From the XI you've picked, the others to be considered would be Martin Donnelly, Stewie Dempster, Wagner, John R Reid, McCullum and Fleming.

 

[ataraxia]

Mine is:

GM Turner
CS Dempster
KS Williamson*
MD Crowe
LRPL Taylor
BJ Watling +
JR Reid (4)
CL Cairns (5)
RJ Hadlee (1)
SE Bond (2)
N Wagner (3)

The bowling attack is weird but the premise is you have Hadlee bowling in tandem with someone else and the differences will always be so hard to face. Second:

JG Wright
TWM Latham
B Sutcliffe
MP Donnelly
SP Fleming*
BB McCullum +
DL Vettori
BR Taylor (2)
TG Southee (4)
TA Boult (1)
RC Motz (3)

 

[Flem274*]

latham only gets near a second xi as a subcontinent specialist, and even then im still taking mark richardson. tom latham loves asian club standard medium pacers too much. turner, sutcliffe, richardson and wright are easily our best to play a significant number of tests (dempster is hard to rate because of sample size).

 

[ataraxia]

latham only gets near a second xi as a subcontinent specialist, and even then im still taking mark richardson. tom latham loves asian club standard medium pacers too much. turner, sutcliffe, richardson and wright are easily our best to play a significant number of tests (dempster is hard to rate because of sample size).

Yeah, just think 4 years at test level wasn't enough to prove that he is better than Latham. On reflection given Dempster's FC record I'd have Sutcliffe over CS.

 

[Red]

Andrew Jones worth a shout for the 2nd XI? Was a good bat.

I loved the NZers when I was a kid in the 80s because I was obsessed with Footrot Flats comics and I'd made a connection between the two really strongly. Andrew Jones and Ken Rutherford struck me as guys who'd be in FF.