DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread

[Starfighter]

Here's a question: are 'good eras for batting' or 'bad eras for bowling' such because of the absence of great bowlers making batsmen look good, or the presence of great batsmen making bowlers look bad? I can't help but notice that thinking tends entirely towards the former without even considering the latter.

Ed.: aside from variation in the pitches with would of course affect both.

 

[Logan]

In other words, Barrington averaged 50+ against every country except WI.

Sobers played in pretty much the same era. Had the advantage of playing for WI and not facing Hall/Gibbs. Averaged 43 against Australia and 23 against NZ in 12 Tests.

Why does Barrington come under so much scrutiny while Sobers doesn’t?

 

[Days of Grace]

Close, but not quite

You see it was Andrew's post that made me realise that the '60s were pretty barren for bowling attacks. A few legends retired in the early part of the decade then it was cash in time for bats, except for the Windies but more on that later.

He averaged a lot against an Australian attack nearly devoid of greats sans Benaud and Davidson in the twilight of their career. And after Davidson retired in '63 he really went to town, getting a 256 against us in '64 when Bobby Simpson bowled 19 overs in an innings and our opening bowlers and first change ups were the esteemed combination of McKenzie/Corley/Hawke

He averaged a bucketload against NZ, Pakistan and India. Surely other than India there wasnt much bowling threat from those countries in the '60s

And against the best bowling side of his era, the Gibbs/Hall et all lead West Indies, his career average was 34

The county average of 39 is just the icing on the cake for me evidence wise

A first rate destroyer of second rate bowling.

Sobers played in the same era and he didn't have to face Gibbs/Hall et all. And yet he still averaged less than Barrington over his career. Of course, he scored his runs at a faster rate which is one of the reasons he finishes above Barrington in this analysis.

Anyway, I just posted no.7 so I'm leaving this thread to go into meltdown for a few hours. Back soon.

 

[Starfighter]

tstl that's lower than I expected.

 

[mr_mister]

In other words, Barrington averaged 50+ against every country except WI.

Sobers played in pretty much the same era. Had the advantage of playing for WI and not facing Hall/Gibbs. Averaged 43 against Australia and 23 against NZ in 12 Tests.

Why does Barrington come under so much scrutiny while Sobers doesn’t?

I personally don't rate Sobers as high as most

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tendulkar's second peak from late 2008 to early 2011 would have been pretty close to the 97-01 peak statistically.

 

[sunilz]

3 things which probably cost him quality points
1. Inability to score 500 in any test series
2. Low average against Pak in 2000 when everyone made merry. ( Even Yuvraj averages around 60 against Pak in test iirc )
3. 2004-06 ,2011-13 period

 

[Slifer]

I personally don't rate Sobers as high as most

Among West Indians he's behind Viv afaic....

 

[mr_mister]

Surprised he didn't crack the top 10 for any of those categories

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sobers played in the same era and he didn't have to face Gibbs/Hall et all. And yet he still averaged less than Barrington over his career. Of course, he scored his runs at a faster rate which is one of the reasons he finishes above Barrington in this analysis.

Anyway, I just posted no.7 so I'm leaving this thread to go into meltdown for a few hours. Back soon.

Sobers had to play England who probably had the best collection of bowlers in that era with Trueman and Statham early on and then Snow-Underwood. Also played, atleast on paper, much stronger Indian and Pakistani attacks. Barrington never really played against Fazal or India's spin quartet.

 

[mr_mister]

3 things which probably cost him quality points
1. Inability to score 500 in any test series
2. Low average against Pak in 2000 when everyone made merry. ( Even Yuvraj averages around 60 against Pak in test iirc )
3. 2004-06 ,2011-13 period

The first point is something I was thinking about it recently. I've heard it's like a criticism that he never scored more than two tons in a series?

I think that's a little harsh because the majority of his series were 3 test series right? How many 4 let alone 5 test series did he feature in

On the contrary never cracking 500 in a series but scoring so many runs tells me he was always good for one ton a series which I think is a cool thing in itself. Never went missing for a whole series

 

[Logan]

Surprised with his 46th rank against quality opposition. Sachin did very well against Aus/SA scoring 18 centuries against them.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Surprised he didn't crack the top 10 for any of those categories

Kinda makes sense, he's more a batsman who was really great at everything instead of being godlike at any one particular characteristic (like Barrington's away record or Ponting's peak).

The away record is actually pretty incredible considering it's a sample of 106 tests, which is as many as most players play overall.

 

[sunilz]

Anyway, I just posted no.7 so I'm leaving this thread to go into meltdown for a few hours. Back soon.

Why do you think there would be meltdown ?
Tendulkar's greatness was always his longevity and ability to score runs in all conditions and his technique , 40+ average in all countries. I doubt anyone valued Tendulkar for his peak.

 

[ankitj]

Quality points quite low for Tendulkar. @DoG - what would have been his quality points if he retired after world cup 2011?

 

[Prince EWS]

Sobers had to play England who probably had the best collection of bowlers in that era with Trueman and Statham early on and then Snow-Underwood. Also played, atleast on paper, much stronger Indian and Pakistani attacks. Barrington never really played against Fazal or India's spin quartet.

Sobers also had to play for the equivalent of almost 17 years, while Barrington played for the equivalent of just 8 even though there were 13 years between his Test debut and last game. Call me a cynic but I don't think he ends up with a 58 average if he has to play more Tests during that period he a cavalier batsman averaging 40 odd domestically. Sobers on the other hand debuted as a spinner when he was 18 and it took him four years to hit a ton or crack a batting average of 35+.

 

[sunilz]

Can somebody compile quality points of players who played atleast 100 test ? I think players who have played atleast 100 tests have low quality points like Sachin, Gavaskar, Ponting, Dravid, Waugh.

 

[ankitj]

Can somebody compile quality points of players who played atleast 100 test ? I think players who have played atleast 100 tests have low quality points like Sachin, Gavaskar, Ponting, Dravid, Waugh.

Vivah Richards an exception.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Can somebody compile quality points of players who played atleast 100 test ? I think players who have played atleast 100 tests have low quality points like Sachin, Gavaskar, Ponting, Dravid, Waugh.

Viv is the highest on quality for 100+ test players so far I think

 

[Slifer]

Surprised with his 46th rank against quality opposition. Sachin did very well against Aus/SA scoring 18 centuries against them.

But not always with their first choice attack. Examples: 98 series in india and the 04 series down under. His record vs an atg Oz attack with at least Warne and especially Mcgrath present is okay. Also, his record when RSA had an atg attack was mediocre. Did very well vs Steyn/Morkel which was a very good attack, so there's that.