DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread

[ataraxia]

Ain’t gonna blame Verity for dying in the war.

Not blaming him just remarking that his figures would probably be worse if he played from the age of 20 to 40 like others.

 

[Coronis]

Not blaming him just remarking that his figures would probably be worse if he played from the age of 20 to 40 like others.

I’d be surprised, the great spin bowlers didn’t really decline much did they?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Quite a young age to retire for a top tier batsman.

Probably influenced by him starting very young

Everyone rates Smith on this forum. He is better than both Hayden/ Sehwag when it comes to batting in all conditions.

One record for which he should be always remembered is captain with most number of innings victory.
Graeme Smith 22
Steve Waugh 14 or 15

not sure if this is just classic sunilz bait (because comparing to Waugh) but nah that's a pretty pointless stat which he certainly should not be remembered for.

Smith captained about twice as many matches as Waugh. And a much higher proportion of them against minnows which I'd guess a fair few of those innings victories came from (edit: Smith had 7 innings victories against Bangladesh alone, who Waugh only played twice)

 

[Flem274*]

im not surprised viv came in around here. this analysis has smiled on those who dump a pile of runs on the board, and viv does have a smaller massive pile of runs than the guys ahead of him.

 

[ataraxia]

I’d be surprised, the great spin bowlers didn’t really decline much did they?

Most of the great spinners were pretty bad as youngsters whereas Verity's way into Yorkshire was blocked by the legend depicted in my avatar until Verity was ~24 IIRC. Would be interesting to see how many Yorkshire A matches Verity played.

 

[Coronis]

Most of the great spinners were pretty bad as youngsters whereas Verity's way into Yorkshire was blocked by the legend depicted in my avatar until Verity was ~24 IIRC. Would be interesting to see how many Yorkshire A matches Verity played.

Verity actually didn’t begin bowling spin til 1929, then was signed by Yorkshire for 1930 and was playing tests in 1931.

 

[ataraxia]

Verity actually didn’t begin bowling spin til 1929, then was signed by Yorkshire for 1930 and was playing tests in 1931.

Oh that isn't in my book; didn't know that. Yorkshire just needed a left-arm spinner after Rhodes to continue on their long-lasting plan I suppose and Verity may have been approached?

 

[ataraxia]

Probably influenced by him starting very young

20/21 isn't that young for a top-class batsman though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

20/21 isn't that young for a top-class batsman though.

Maybe if you're only looking at the very, very best. He was also captain from that early age. There aren't many batsmen in general that started that young and played non-stop for 15+ years. I could imagine playing all that time, and so much of it as captain, would exhaust you.

 

[Coronis]

Anyway I meant to do a predict once we hit 10, but I forgot so I’ll just do 9

9. Barrington
8. Hutton
7. Sangakkara
6. Lara
5. Tendulkar
4. Smith
3. Hobbs
2. Sobers
1. Bradman

 

[Bolo.]

Sanga struggled against quality off breaks or any off spin bowler on a helpful track (barring Ajmal). His reputation comes from single handed destruction of Ajmal, whom all other batsmen struggled against. Sanga struggled against Gareth Batty, Swann, Ashwin and Harbhajan. Except for the first all others are quality bowlers, but he did play Warne very well.

I didnt see much of him in tests except against RSA, where he dominated the spin and did ok against the quicks. Not exactly representative to be fair though- good quicks and garbage spin.

Still, he averages about 30% more in the SC than out of it. Not really a hallmark of a player bad against spin. Bowling strength of the various sides might account for some of this gap, but it is a big gap.

 

[honestbharani]

Probably influenced by him starting very young



not sure if this is just classic sunilz bait (because comparing to Waugh) but nah that's a pretty pointless stat which he certainly should not be remembered for.

Smith captained about twice as many matches as Waugh. And a much higher proportion of them against minnows which I'd guess a fair few of those innings victories came from (edit: Smith had 7 innings victories against Bangladesh alone, who Waugh only played twice)

Nah. Its a pretty apt comparison as overall Steve Waugh is rated by most as one of the best captains of all time. Of course, this one stat does not mean Graeme Smith is a better captain or anything but it does show his captaincy is not at a level much lesser to Waugh's. If anything, I think Sunilz was being nice and showing that he himself rates Waugh as a great captain.

 

[sunilz]

IIRC Steve Waugh has 2nd most number of innings victory, this is why I mentioned his name and Graeme Smith has most number of innings victory . But then logic and TJB don't go together.

 

[stephen]

G Smith should have been born an Englishman. He was good without being great in South Africa, but in England he scored 5 tons in 12 tests.

I always got the feeling that he didn't mind movement but couldn't really handle pace off the wicket that well. Nor was he great against spin. Unlike Hayden who was better against pace and spin but couldn't handle movement quite so well. Whoever said that he'd be a good partner for either Hayden or Sehwag in an XI of that era was right.

I find it hard to rate Smith as being better than either Hayden or Sehwag. A big part of being a truly great opener is dominating in home conditions, which gives your side a platform to dominate at home. Smith never really did that.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.9

Len Hutton (England) 877

Quality Points: 813
Career Points: 64

Career/Runs: 1937-1955, 6971 (rank 34)

Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 54.10 (56.67) 48.22 (50.51) 44.00 (38.26) (rank 13)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1950-1954): 71.74 57.39 45.25 (rank 10)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 55.07 49.65 44.15 (rank 7)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 64.23 56.06 46.66 (rank 4)

Sir Leonard Hutton made a name for himself early, breaking the Don's record when he scored 364 at the Oval in 1938. He was 23 years old when the war broke out and by the time of the next Ashes series in 1946/47 he was a mature 30 but with a damaged arm due to a commando training injury he suffered during the war. He had to alter his batting style but from 1946 to his retirement in 1955 he averaged an adjusted 53.75 (54.62), carrying England when they were a distinct second best to Australia in the late 1940s. He became the first professional captain of England in 1952 and the following year lead his nation to its first Ashes victory since 1932/33. Hutton was supreme away from home, particularly in the West Indies in 1953/54 and he was outstanding against one of the alltime great Australian sides whose ranks included Lindwall, Miller and Johnston. By the end of the West Indies tour of 1953/54, he had scored 6665 runs at an adjusted average of 58.58 (61.71). This would have been enough to secure 3rd place in this ranking list with 917 points. But he had a mediocre final year as the burden of opening and captaincy took its toll and he finishes at no.9 whereas a place in the top 5 would have been a better reflection of his greatness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHrS_S1EO8M

 

[sunilz]

@ DOG , is he the 2nd player after Gavaskar to be ranked in top 25 in all parameters? Or does total runs disqualify him ?

 

[stephen]

Hutton a shade lower than I think most would have him.

 

[Logan]

So Hobbs is the highest ranked opener.

 

[Spark]

G Smith should have been born an Englishman. He was good without being great in South Africa, but in England he scored 5 tons in 12 tests.

I always got the feeling that he didn't mind movement but couldn't really handle pace off the wicket that well. Nor was he great against spin. Unlike Hayden who was better against pace and spin but couldn't handle movement quite so well. Whoever said that he'd be a good partner for either Hayden or Sehwag in an XI of that era was right.

I find it hard to rate Smith as being better than either Hayden or Sehwag. A big part of being a truly great opener is dominating in home conditions, which gives your side a platform to dominate at home. Smith never really did that.

A big part of being a truly great opener - or player full stop - is also leading your side to series victories against strong opposition away from home.

 

[ataraxia]

Hutton's adjusted average is interesting, just like Hammond's. It will affect my ranking of him, but he's still fairly comfortable in my World XI. I definitely do not and won't agree with Hutton > (edit: mean <) Barrington/Sangakkara.