Why isn't Imran rated higher?

[sunilz]

Imran Tahir , Mark Craig and Johnny Sins certainly owe their success to Warne. They all were highly inspired by him .

 

[TheJediBrah]

It did

You don’t know what you’re talking about here unless you watched a lot of cricket in the 70s and 80s in a first order cricket country rather than a faux one.

Away from the second order nations, pace ruled everything, as it rightfully should. Lillee started that era. Warne ended it.

Do you really think a bloke literally standing there and rightly getting being called for shot putting had the same transcendental effect on the sport? Do you think any captain of a proper test nation thought “See this fella who’s been no balled out of the game? Fmd we’ll pick more spinners”? Of course not. JFC man. Come on.

Can't really argue with this tbh. Whether you consider Murali's bowling fair or not, this is the brutal truth.

 

[srbhkshk]

Serious lol at anyone thinking that a recognized druggie is more inspirational than a bloke who was unfairly targeted even though he had a clean action and managed more wickets regardless.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Serious lol at anyone thinking that a recognized druggie is more inspirational than a bloke who was unfairly targeted even though he had a clean action and managed more wickets regardless.

Ignoring the obvious bias in this comment, you have to look at the context here. The claim, at least as I see it, wasn't that "Warne was more insipirational than Murali" in general. It was clearly about revitalising spin bowling in non-Asian countries where fast bowling dominated in the 70s and 80s.

 

[srbhkshk]

Ignoring the obvious bias in this comment, you have to look at the context here. The claim, at least as I see it, wasn't that "Warne was more insipirational than Murali" in general. It was clearly about revitalising spin bowling in non-Asian countries where fast bowling dominated in the 70s and 80s.

My comment is purely factual and go and look at what you bolded in post #62 and tell me what it's about.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, just look at all the leg spinners who are now plying their trade because of Warne in non-Asian teams. Such as ...........................................................

 

[TheJediBrah]

My comment is purely factual and go and look at what you bolded in post #62 and tell me what it's about.

If you've ever seen Burgey post before you know he's going to throw in some unecessary anti-subcontient jibes. It doesn't change the truth of what he said.

 

[srbhkshk]

Yeah, just look at all the leg spinners who are now plying their trade because of Warne in non-Asian teams. Such as ...........................................................

the fabled and legendary leg spinners Steven Smith and Dave Warner.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm sorry that Burgey goes about it in a dickish way but he's absolutely correct even though you clearly don't like it

I can tell you as a kid growing up playing cricket during Warne's time that everyone wanted to be a leg-spinner and so many copied is action even just among my friends. And I'm sure Burgey will tell you that this absolutely wasn't the case in the 70s and 80s, and that it the fast-bowlers like Lillee, Thomson, Hadlee and Imran that everyone wanted to be like.

Unless you similarly grew up in a non-Asian country and have genuine reason to dispute it then you really aren't in a position to refute it, regardless of how much it triggers you (though I don't understand why it does)

 

[TheJediBrah]

the fabled and legendary leg spinners Steven Smith and Dave Warner.

Funny that you mention these because both Smith and Warner have cited Warne as a huge inspiration for their bowling. Warner in particularly copied his action nearly exactly,. Whether they (or others) became world-class leg-spin bowlers is irrelevant and a pretty dumb point to bring up in retaliation in the first place tbh

 

[harsh.ag]

It all comes down to the meaning of the word revitalized as used.

If revitalized to someone means kids started bowling spin and copying Warne's action, then, yes, Warne did revitalize spin. Hell even in India kids preferred to copy him more than Kumble.

But if revitalized is used to mean Warne's career inspired the bursting on to the scene of the next generation of leggies or spinners in general, then there is big fat 0 amount of evidence for that.

The problem is sometimes the latter and the former are conflated by some posters when using that word. Sort it out and there will be no problem.

 

[srbhkshk]

Funny that you mention these because both Smith and Warner have cited Warne as a huge inspiration for their bowling. Warner in particularly copied his action nearly exactly,. Whether they (or others) became world-class leg-spin bowlers is irrelevant and a pretty dumb point to bring up in retaliation in the first place tbh

Mate, plenty of kids have been inspired by Murali's bowling. This is a simple we and our kids liked him more because he was from my country argument (and that's perfectly fair), but then you guys have to bring in Murali's action in it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Mate, plenty of kids have been inspired by Murali's bowling.

Clearly, every second Sri Lankan spinner is getting banned for chucking and, this may be a controversial opinion, but IMO this exact influence is partially to blame.

This is a simple we and our kids liked him more because he was from my country argument (and that's perfectly fair), but then you guys have to bring in Murali's action in it.

Murali's action will always be a factor, regardless of your opinion on it's legality. And as I said earlier, it's not really relevant anyway as Burgey was clearly referring primarily to cricket in non-Asian countries, because, as I also said earlier, spin bowling didn't need revitalisation in Asia when you play on those pitches and spin bowling is almost always first and foremost.

 

[kyear2]

You guys are all seeing from your perspective, which is the only way one can perceive anything from.

Warne revitalized the art in Australia, and possibly England, but didn't lead to the influx of talented spinners that may have been expected.

Similarity for those in Sri Lanka and possibly the wider SC Murali was equally inspirational and brought just as many to his art.

Neither had a greater world wide influence than the other and there was no reason to bring in either Warne's drug use or Murali's action.

If we want to choose one player that really changed the game I would much more lean towards Gilchrist, whom made it a must to have a keeper who could legitimately bat. And even then Alec Stewart intermittently dabbled and Engineer and Dijon was at least capable.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

I don't know actually that Gilchrist exactly brought up the idea that one needs a keeper that can bat. Rather, one needs some who can score consistantly score 50s or 100s and bat aggressively.

There is a long enough history of this, particularly with England. Les Ames as generally preferred over George Duckworth for batting. Same goes for the selection of Jim Parks and Alan Smith over John Murray. Alec Stewart over Jack Russell was another one with various accommodations. Alan Knott similalrly kept Bob Taylor out of the England side.
For Australia, Rod Marsh was preferred over Barry Jarman or Brian Taber I believe due to his batting, and I'd also wonder if it was the case for the Australian keeper position in the 80s: surely we'd have had a better keeper than Wayne Phillips.

Probably it is more correct to say that Gilchrist brought in an era of batting being considered first and foremost and keeping skill being relegated to a distant secondary or tertiary importance for selection.

Obviously and relevant to the discussion, this may not have been the case outside of England and Australia.

 

[vcs]

LOL at TJB passing off purely subjective crap backed up by arguments such as 'every kid I knew copied Warne growing up" as the "brutal truth".

ICC's testing > your eyes

There's some brutal truth for you.

 

[Bijed]

Warne's influence in England definitely came in the form of pretty much any English legspinner getting far more attention from the national setup and chances in international matches than their ability warranted

 

[MrPrez]

Warne was clearly more influential to the average joe in making leg spin "***y." than Murali was in, well, any capacity really.

It's not a slight on Murali; it's simply testament to how, rightly or wrongly, Warne was a massive influence on the game.

No matter how you rate David Beckham as a footballer, there's no doubt he is one of the most influential footballers in recent history. Warne's similar.

 

[sunilz]

Warne's influence in England definitely came in the form of pretty much any English legspinner getting far more attention from the national setup and chances in international matches than their ability warranted

That is because of Ashes tbf . Australia too have been trying to get their own version of Botham since that 81 series.

 

[honestbharani]

the fabled and legendary leg spinners Steven Smith and Dave Warner.

Don't forget Marnus.. NEVER FORGET MARNUS!!!