South Africa team selection

[Pup Clarke]

Isn't he just coming back from injury? Surely he would have played this series if fit

 

[MrPrez]

He was injured in the lead up. I'm pretty sure he would've played if not.

Woops. Fair enough.

 

[StephenZA]

Mulder is injured... back problems, not playing FC and don't no where he is at right now.

 

[MrPrez]

But that is all Pretorius is at the moment, a 5th bowler. his batting is useless and been so for awhile. His near 40 FC avg is throwing people off that he is a quality all-rounder. He is not. Hence my point at preferring Andile who at least has a solid technique room to grow and has been scoring runs for a Dolphins team that is struggling.

That's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? He's certainly not a 40-averaging player but he is still a genuine bowling AR. Certainly good enough to be a solid Test 8. Whereas picking a specialist quick gives no batting whatsoever.

Pretorius/Philander at 7/8 is not good but it is better than Philander/Maharaj in those spots. And I think that extra bit of batting is more important than a fifth bowler.

 

[StephenZA]

That's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? He's certainly not a 40-averaging player but he is still a genuine bowling AR. Certainly good enough to be a solid Test 8. Whereas picking a specialist quick gives no batting whatsoever.

Pretorius/Philander at 7/8 is not good but it is better than Philander/Maharaj in those spots. And I think that extra bit of batting is more important than a fifth bowler.

Nortje has shown more defensive technique with the bat. Pretorius is not the player he was, he is a trundling 5th bowler in this Test team at the moment. And we are picking him in an allrounder position, where his contribution with the ball is not enough and his contribution with the bat is not enough. So lets get somebody in that contributes something significant with one of those skills.

 

[StephenZA]

And just as an aside, the Rassie selection is everything I was worried it was going to turn out to be. Solid, good performances in a struggling team. I am not saying drop him, now that he has been selected, that would be harsh. But I feel his existence is going to delay more accomplished batsmen getting into the team now.

 

[MrPrez]

Nortje has shown more defensive technique with the bat. Pretorius is not the player he was, he is a trundling 5th bowler in this Test team at the moment. And we are picking him in an allrounder position, where his contribution with the ball is not enough and his contribution with the bat is not enough. So lets get somebody in that contributes something significant with one of those skills.

It's unfair to compare when Nortje had a batting performance that noone realistically thinks he can replicate on a regular basis. He scored 40 in an innings, and has scored 16 in the other 7 at Test level so far.

Besides, Pretorius' contribution with the ball was pretty solid - 5 wickets at 26 in the first two Tests.

The whole Pretorius discussion is different if he's being picked as one of the four frontline bowlers. But he's not.

 

[MrPrez]

And just as an aside, the Rassie selection is everything I was worried it was going to turn out to be. Solid, good performances in a struggling team. I am not saying drop him, now that he has been selected, that would be harsh. But I feel his existence is going to delay more accomplished batsmen getting into the team now.

Disagree again. If we wanted to blood another batsman we could easily do it with Pretorius' spot. Besides, I think you're underestimating how valuable he could be to our middle-order in this rebuilding phase.

Realistically we could be nurturing an opening batsman (Harsh on Malan obv), Hamza, and Mulder within our top 7. I'm not sure I'd want more than that at one time.

 

[SeamUp]

And just as an aside, the Rassie selection is everything I was worried it was going to turn out to be. Solid, good performances in a struggling team. I am not saying drop him, now that he has been selected, that would be harsh. But I feel his existence is going to delay more accomplished batsmen getting into the team now.

This will be the issue for a while I reckon. It looks massively harsh from us.

I still believe to be a successful international batsmen you need have extra-ordinary talent (not saying that is all because we know that is not true but it is the base) and not a middling domestic run scorer.

Times have changed from when the best of international talent played domestic cricket so you could see who was successful by looking at the stats.

 

[StephenZA]

Nortje showed good temperament and defence when Pretorius has shown less, one is picked as a bowler one is picked to extend the batting?

I just don't think his batting is good enough for test level, and I have seen nothing in what he has done so far to change my assessment. The fact he was shifted down to 8 behind Philander says much. So in the end I just don't see him contributing to the teams future. What happens when Philander retires? We hope Mulder comes in at 7 and continues to protect Pretorius. He scored a nice 33 but I just don't think he belongs and rather trying younger who can improve and bolster the team long term is a better option.

 

[SeamUp]

Nortje showed good temperament and defence when Pretorius has shown less, one is picked as a bowler one is picked to extend the batting?

I just don't think his batting is good enough for test level, and I have seen nothing in what he has done so far to change my assessment. The fact he was shifted down to 8 behind Philander says much. So in the end I just don't see him contributing to the teams future. What happens when Philander retires? We hope Mulder comes in at 7 and continues to protect Pretorius. He scored a nice 33 but I just don't think he belongs and rather trying younger who can improve and bolster the team long term is a better option.

That the 33 where his main scoring shots were one day hits off the spinner ?

That is the thing. No defensive technique at all so you getting to not all-rounder status already. KG has a better defensive technique.

Then the ability to at least rotate strike and I think he is limited there too. So his only real way is to hit which will be a lot harder to do at test level than in domestic cricket. That is if the good ball testing your defensive technique doesn't get you first like it got him in this test.

 

[SeamUp]

I'd go
Malan, Elgar, Hamza, Faf, VDD, QDK, Linde, Philander, Phehlukwayo, Rabada, Nortje

Actually think I'd drop Maharaj tbh. Averaging 50 over the last year and body language doesn't look good. Maybe a good time for him to take some wickets for the Dolphins to then be in consideration for the 4th test

Think there is a cricketer there but just needs to give selectors more answers with his domestic output. But in any case doesn't solve the Hulk issue.

 

[Pup Clarke]

That's fair. I don't think Pretorius has done enough to keep his place personally. Fine if SA are 2-0 up in a 3 test series, he'd absolutely deserve to be selected, but in such a tough series at 1-1 I think SA should look to freshen up a bit

 

[SeamUp]

That's fair. I don't think Pretorius has done enough to keep his place personally. Fine if SA are 2-0 up in a 3 test series, he'd absolutely deserve to be selected, but in such a tough series at 1-1 I think SA should look to freshen up a bit

That is what I'm thinking. Horses for courses. Don't think you will need 2 guys bowling 120-125 at PE much like the Newlands pitch we were just bowling on.

Pretorius might be more handy at The Wanderers if they want to go with similar plans from Centurion.But I would still look away when I see him batting.

 

[Dendarii]

That's fair. I don't think Pretorius has done enough to keep his place personally.

It's that old question (which will never go away) of how long you give a player to prove his worth. The general feeling here is that those two matches were enough for Pretorius to show that he's not up to the task, but I suspect that the selectors are going to be a bit more lenient than us.

 

[akilana]

And just as an aside, the Rassie selection is everything I was worried it was going to turn out to be. Solid, good performances in a struggling team. I am not saying drop him, now that he has been selected, that would be harsh. But I feel his existence is going to delay more accomplished batsmen getting into the team now.

You mean Bavuma?

 

[StephenZA]

You mean Bavuma?

Yes of course Bavuma, obviously he is the next one in line, considering he is no longer in the squad and has been told to go back down to FC and make runs to get back.

 

[MrPrez]

I don't think Pretorius has proven that he's not good enough at all.

FWIW I agree that Pretorius isn't necessary at PE but I'd still prefer him to a fifth specialist bowler who doesn't bat. But as I've said before I'd still rather see Mulder/ a batsman.

That said, this is all almost completely irrelevant as we know the selectors won't sack Pretorius given he didn't fail with the ball, as well as that he recently signed that new contract. So this is all a hypothetical exercise.

 

[StephenZA]

I don't think Pretorius has proven that he's not good enough at all.

FWIW I agree that Pretorius isn't necessary at PE but I'd still prefer him to a fifth specialist bowler who doesn't bat. But as I've said before I'd still rather see Mulder/ a batsman.

That said, this is all almost completely irrelevant as we know the selectors won't sack Pretorius given he didn't fail with the ball, as well as that he recently signed that new contract. So this is all a hypothetical exercise.

Do you honestly believe the Pretorius is a test class batting number 7?

 

[Bahseph]

Yeah MrPrez I think you are on your own here mate. I was sceptical about his selection but I wanted him to succeed. After watching his batting I don't see the upside.