*Official* New Zealand in Australia 2019/20

[NZTailender]

He bowled well without reward on day 5 iirc. Was getting plenty of turn but wasn't taking advantage.

His biggest weakness is consistency. Can bowl some tight stuff then just completely releases the pressure 2 balls out of 6. Which is why he didn't add to those 3 wickets on day 5.

 

[Immenso]

Raval's innings this season:

DNB
33
4
0
7
3
14
19
5
0
1
1

 

[Starfighter]

He bowled well without reward on day 5 iirc. Was getting plenty of turn but wasn't taking advantage.

There's more to bowling well than getting plenty of turn.

His biggest weakness is consistency. Can bowl some tight stuff then just completely releases the pressure 2 balls out of 6. Which is why he didn't add to those 3 wickets on day 5.

Sounds like it might be reasonable to conclude he wasn't, in fact, bowling that well.

 

[Immenso]

Afer initial annoyance at the non selection of Patel and/or Sommerville at the start of the summer.

TBH. I don't mind the Santner selection as general thing in non-Asian tours (even if I think he will contribute nothing to the batting depth in Australian conditions).

My issue is that, as his test selection moves him back to being an all formats player for NZ, I have zero faith in his ability to improve going forward. He simply won't get to play any non-test FC cricket.

I like having an opener and a spinner as a test specialist (plus Wags and Watling).

 

[Flem274*]

latham
raval
kane
ross
nicholls
watling
cdg
southee
somerville/ajaz
wagner
boult

send the same batsmen back out to fix their own hole and bring in a spinner who can actually threaten at test level. we're not winning this series off santa's bat.

open to howsies rumour of seifert playing because he impresses me but i'd rather keep sending raval out there than debut a guy who hasn't opened heaps. he played well against sa who are on the same level, he has it in him somewhere to do it again.

 

[Burgey]

I dunno, I reckon Raval can play. I know it's hard to stick with a bloke when it's not happening for him, but there's a reason why gun openers stand out like dogs balls - it's the toughest place to bat and there's no being out of form and coming in at 2/300 to get you back in nick. I'd be giving him the series unless there's someone who's measurably better at domestic level, and I don't know there is, based on what NZ posters have said.

 

[NZTailender]

I'm expecting Nicholls and Latham to have a good test at the MCG. Probably Nicholls more-so. I feel like he will examine how he got out and will tighten up - just seems like that kind of player now. And he loves a fight.

 

[Burgey]

I know I'm massively down on Santner, but I really don't think his bowling in the England win was impressive at all. He was gifted 3 wickets (one of which wasn't even out) by an English side that were totally enfeebled by exhaustion. He then got the chance to bowl on a day 5 pitch that was actually offering some pretty extravagant turn, and - as usual - looked totally innocuous. A bowler like Lyon would've grabbed a bag in those conditions (as would most competent test spinners).

Really the Santner situation reminds me of something that was said about Henry during the England series. The selectors opted for a defensive selection on the assumption that none of our actual spin bowlers are likely to be effective in NZ conditions, and were subsequently backed into a corner by said selection surprising on the upside.

Yeah but realistically, the bloke takes wickets and makes a ton, you can't leave him out for another spinner. It just doesn't happen. He was always going to play, and he deserved to.

 

[NZTailender]

I dunno, I reckon Raval can play. I know it's hard to stick with a bloke when it's not happening for him, but there's a reason why gun openers stand out like dogs balls - it's the toughest place to bat and there's no being out of form and coming in at 2/300 to get you back in nick. I'd be giving him the series unless there's someone who's measurably better at domestic level, and I don't know there is, based on what NZ posters have said.

I tend to agree with this. We don't have anyone knocking the door down, and realistically we're making a bet that someone like Seifert coming in and scoring 30 is more likely than Raval coming good and scoring 50 (150).

Someone brought it up earlier, Vincent was the last opener to score a hundred in Australia. Latham managed 1 fifty I think, last tour, and before that Redmond scored 87 on a tour once, and Cumming a couple of 40s iirc. It's not an easy place for openers, let alone Kiwi ones.

In fact, we have the best middle order by average and the worst openers in the last 5 years.

 

[jcas0167]

One plus for Raval was his fielding - took some good catches and the Australian commentators seemed impressed with his work in the field generally. He was looking more solid in the 2nd innings, I think that NZ will resist making any changes apart from Boult coming back in for Ferguson.

 

[NZTailender]

One plus for Raval was his fielding - took some good catches and the Australian commentators seemed impressed with his work in the field generally.

Honestly, he seems like a dour, left handed Guptill. Nice bloke, decent fielder, great to have in the squad, just **** at test opening.

 

[NZTailender]

I tend to agree with this. We don't have anyone knocking the door down, and realistically we're making a bet that someone like Seifert coming in and scoring 30 is more likely than Raval coming good and scoring 50 (150).

Someone brought it up earlier, Vincent was the last opener to score a hundred in Australia. Latham managed 1 fifty I think, last tour, and before that Redmond scored 87 on a tour once, and Cumming a couple of 40s iirc. It's not an easy place for openers, let alone Kiwi ones.

In fact, we have the best middle order by average and the worst openers in the last 5 years.

To take this further back and include Vincent's unlikely century and half century on dayboo, we're the second worst side, better than only Zimbabwe (who played only twice), at opening in Australia. We just can't play the new ball against Aussie quicks. We've only put on two 50+ stands with a high of 77 ffs.

Not wanting to let Raval off the hook, but in context, he's pretty much just following history.

 

[Immenso]

Honestly, he seems like a dour, left handed Guptill. Nice bloke, decent fielder, great to have in the squad, just **** at test opening.

Disagree. 3 years body of work suggests he is quite a good test opener, not great, but good by NZ standards, but who is out of form.

Until this season which is now already 3 series deep - the only time he's looked bad at test opening was 2018 series v Broad.

A similarity to Guptill, playing-wise, is both are poor if they lasted long enough to face spinners.

 

[Immenso]

To take this further back and include Vincent's unlikely century and half century on dayboo, we're the second worst side, better than only Zimbabwe (who played only twice), at opening in Australia. We just can't play the new ball against Aussie quicks. We've only put on two 50+ stands with a high of 77 ffs.

Not wanting to let Raval off the hook, but in context, he's pretty much just following history.

I wonder if those 2 50+ stands were in the rare occasions they played a 3rd test in a series and players have started to acclimatise. Certainly Perth 2001 was.

Still crap, mind you.

 

[NZTailender]

Disagree. 3 years body of work suggests he is quite a good test opener, not great, but good by NZ standards, but who is out of form.

Until this season which is now already 3 series deep - the only time he's looked bad at test opening was 2018 series v Broad.

A similarity to Guptill, playing-wise, is both are poor if they lasted long enough to face spinners.

This is true. He did quite well early on but the last 12 months have been fairly diabolical. Is it simply out of form, considering he plays **** all FC cricket, no A tours, and no L/O international exposure and experience? Or has he been found out?

I think it's the former really. A county stint would probably help considerably.

 

[NZTailender]

I wonder if those 2 50+ stands were in the rare occasions they played a 3rd test in a series and players have started to acclimatise. Certainly Perth 2001 was.

Still crap, mind you.

Before I delve into it, I feel like Guptill and Latham managed it once, and Redmond and Cumming (?) maybe once as well.

Edit: Guptill and Latham in Brisbane 2015, and Vincent and Richardson second innings 2001.

So first innings first test on a road, and 2nd innings of the third test where we almost beat Aus.

Funnily enough, our openers do best in Brisbane: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...team=5;template=results;type=fow;view=innings

 

[SteveNZ]

Nah, leave KW where he is. He's NZ's best ever no. 3 bat. Don't want to mess with that.

Minor thing, but did anyone else find Starc's comments to Raval yesterday really ****? It's not like you need to engage in that kind of sledging to dislodge him.

I'm convinced Starc must have a really small ****.

Why else when you're bowling nigh on 150, you're coming off a 5-for, and you've clearly got a guy on toast, would you even think about trying to humiliate him verbally? It's really weak. Just get him out. You'd have to be a very small human being to take delight in saying that.

 

[Bahnz]

This is true. He did quite well early on but the last 12 months have been fairly diabolical. Is it simply out of form, considering he plays **** all FC cricket, no A tours, and no L/O international exposure and experience? Or has he been found out?

I think it's the former really. A county stint would probably help considerably.

He had a county stint with Yorkshire in 2018. Averaged 12 with a high score of 21 from 4 games. Got dropped and understandably wasn't asked back.

 

[the big bambino]

I'd like Pattinson in for Haze at Melbourne. A shame Lockie has gone home. If he was fit it would have made an interesting choice for seamers with Boult returning. Ferguson's pace gives NZ variety and I'd have kept him and benched Southee. Which would appear unfair as Southee bowled exceptionally well at Perth and had easily his best game against Aus. Its just that he is perhaps NZ's 4th best on this tour when moving from pink to red ball. However NZ's pace attack will still be strong for Melbourne though they'll be hoping for some life in the pitch.

I think CdG works as a bits and pieces player (I reckon he's better than that really - but that's his role) because he's neither the side's main batsman or bowler. He comes in to shore up the batting and bowling innings, fill a breach type of a player. However Santner is the side's main spinner and appears to given a role that's probably a little too big for him. Especially on this tour when you have to Vettori standard atleast. I know he's not touring but Sommerville has the best credentials to fill that role and if he was able to be picked, should be.

Just a note on the commentators, how does Time Lane get a gig? **** I hate him. I mean Brayshaw is bad but Lane just smarms an impression of haughty superiority. He's neither funny or informative. He's like the boring guy who strikes up a conversation and you can't get away from him. Wasn't he also the guy who made it a condition of his employment that Eddie McGuire stand down from commentating Collingwood games in the AFL. I mean what a hide to make someone effectively recuse themselves for perceived bias in commentary. Its not the High Court ffs. Yet here he was commentating with the likes of Ponting who was an Aussie captain and recently involved in the Aussie team set up. The guy's just a ****ing jerk.

 

[TheBrand]

Those commentators must be on a different network to what we got in NZ. Honestly don't know how people put up with Kerry O'Keeffe - bloke is an absolute punisher who isn't that funny.

Also Mark Waugh is horrendously bad which makes me sad as he was one of my favourite players growing up.

Isa, Hussey, Vaughan, Howie and Smithy were all pretty good though, can't really fault them.