The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[_00_deathscar]

I haven't filtered for number of runs/matches but...
Batsmen averaging 50+
1990s: 7 (Sachin, Wright, Kambli, S Waugh, Gower, Lara, Gooch) - of which Wright, Kambli and Gower all played <20 tests
2000s: 21 (only 1 - Cullinan - played <20 tests and a couple more - Gambhir and Tilkatratne, played <30 tests).

Insane.

 

[Logan]

Batsmen averaging 45+ in ODIs
Minimum : 50 ODIs

1980s : 6

1990s : 2

2000s : 9

2010s : 20

 

[Burgey]

Unpopular Opinion :

If Viv Richards played ODIs today, he would be a great batsman. But he wouldn’t as ahead of his peers like in the 1980s.

There is much more competition now and most batsman take ODIs more seriously than they did in the 70s/80s.

Being an attacking batsman, Viv’s style was suited to the new format(ODIs). Thus he was able to adapt much quicker than the others.

Man, I don’t want to sound like I’m dissing you or anything, but he was like nothing else you’ve ever seen as a LO batsman. I know it’s hard to imagine someone being better than Kohli or De Villiers, but he just was next level.

Like, he bombed ****s over mid off and cover and it was 20 years before I saw the next bloke hit sixes there. He was amazing. Most destructive batsman I’ve ever seen. Made Gilchrist look like boycott.

If he announced tomorrow he was playing again at age 70 or whatever, I’d watch him. He was th e most box office player I’ve ever seen. When Lillee bowled to him it was like the two biggest action movie heroes having a stink. I can’t explain it, it was that compelling to watch

 

[Logan]

Bowlers averaging <25
Minimum : 20 Tests


1980s : 9

1990s : 8

2000s : 6

2010s : 7

Batsmen averaging 50+
Minimum : 20 Tests

1980s : 5

1990s : 4

2000s : 20

2010s : 11

 

[Logan]

Man, I don’t want to sound like I’m dissing you or anything, but he was like nothing else you’ve ever seen as a LO batsman. I know it’s hard to imagine someone being better than Kohli or De Villiers, but he just was next level.


Like, he bombed ****s over mid off and cover and it was 20 years before I saw the next bloke hit sixes there. He was amazing. Most destructive batsman I’ve ever seen. Made Gilchrist look like boycott.

If he announced tomorrow he was playing again at age 70 or whatever, I’d watch him. He was th e most box office player I’ve ever seen. When Lillee bowled to him it was like the two biggest action movie heroes having a stink. I can’t explain it, it was that compelling to watch

Fair enough.


I have been watching cricket since the early 90s. The best I have watched were Sachin, ABD and Kohli.

Maybe Viv was better than all of them. But I cannot imagine the difference between him and Sachin/ABD/Kohli being a lot. Maybe slightly better. That’s about it.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Malcolm]

Because if you bat like Kohli you cannot have a strike rate like Maxwell. And if you bat like Maxwell, you cannot average like Kohli.

In de Villiers' last 4-5 years he averaged 65 or so at 120. If de Villiers can, there is no way Viv cannot.

 

[h_hurricane]

In de Villiers' last 4-5 years he averaged 65 or so at 120. If de Villiers can, there is no way Viv cannot.

We are talking about the whole career not a split period to prove a point. As I said previously, I do not have any problem in believing Viv would be the best batsman today, Averaging 55 with SR of 105 over a 15 year period would be a good guess imo.

 

[Logan]

I have never watched Viv play. So this is just my statstical analysis.

Viv played 156 matches in the 1980s with an average of 46 with a SR of 91.

The others with a similar average as Viv in the 80s were Dean Jones, Miandad, Greenidge and Zaheer Abbas. Most of fe had a SR in the mid 60s.

The closest was Dean Jones with an overall average of 45 and SR of 72 compared to Richards to 47 and 91.



I personally feel Viv would have averaged around 55 with a SR of 110-115.

 

[Burgey]

I dunno what he would have averaged or stuck at, but I can guarantee you all would have ****ing enjoyed it.

 

[h_hurricane]

Yeah absolutely. Would have been a killer player today. The one who would bring the crowds to the stadium.

 

[Burgey]

They used to come out here every two years in the 80s, and Viv used to win player of the year just by turning up. Was hilarious. Even when they just came out for one dayers.

Must have built a new six car garage for all the prizes. Was an arrogant ****er and, quite frankly, had absolutely every right to be lol

 

[h_hurricane]

Till early 2000s, WI used to have positive W/L difference over Australia in ODIs and I used to wonder how that is possible. Later realized it was mostly down to Viv- Garner bossing in 1970s-80s. What a combination they were !

On a different note, has ODI cricket ever seen a better batsman-bowler combination than these two, if you take just one batsman and a bowler from a team ? I don't think so..

 

[Burgey]

Not many come to mind tbh, not for a 6-8 year period like those two.

Garner was awful. Just ruined lives.

 

[Logan]

On a different note, has ODI cricket ever seen a better batsman-bowler combination than these two, if you take just one batsman and a bowler from a team ? I don't think so..

Virat Kohli and Jaspit Bumrah

2016-Present

Kohli has scored 4689 runs in 74 matches at an average of 84 and hit 20 centuries.

Bumrah has taken 103 wickets at an average of 21 and SR of 29 in 58 matches.

 

[googlyeyes]

ATG T20 team:

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Chris Gayle
3. Virat Kohli
4. Eoin Morgan
5. Glenn Maxwell
6. MS Dhoni
7. Thisara Perera
8. Mitchell Starc
9. Rashid Khan
10. Lasith Malinga
11. Jasprit Bumrah

 

[h_hurricane]

Virat Kohli and Jaspit Bumrah

2016-Present

Kohli has scored 4689 runs in 74 matches at an average of 84 and hit 20 centuries.

Bumrah has taken 103 wickets at an average of 21 and SR of 29 in 58 matches.

Not particularly close. Bumrah especially needs to last the distance to make it comparable. Also, while I don't think WC victories are the be all and end all, they do matter a lot.

Mcgrath and Ponting, the other pair which comes to my mind. I would rate them second behind Viv and Joel.

 

[Logan]

I would love to see Garner-Viv’s numbers when they played with each other.

The only thing going against them is their loss at WC 2019.

 

[Burgey]

Garner is one of the few blokes I can honestly say I have looked at live and in later years on highlights and would absolutely run away from facing.

Absolutely terrifying. Hide behind the lounge stuff.

 

[AndrewB]

I would love to see Garner-Viv’s numbers when they played with each other.
.

The only notable change from their career figures is that Richards's average in matches where Garner was playing goes up to 57.

 

[googlyeyes]

Garner is one of the few blokes I can honestly say I have looked at live and in later years on highlights and would absolutely run away from facing.

Absolutely terrifying. Hide behind the lounge stuff.

You just have to accept that you'll get hit when facing fast bowlers. Only way you'll body will not freeze up and actually be in a position to react in my opinion.