The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[honestbharani]

There are lies, damned lies and one eyed Indian supporters.

Choosing a multi-generational side based on a few statistics that are biased towards players who play more meaningless ODIs on tiny fields with flat decks is very poor reasoning, even by your standards.

Just as bad as one eyed Australian supporters like yourself though.

 

[honestbharani]

You stopped reading after the truth was pointed out?

Tendulkar
Rohit
Kohli
Dhoni

Are 4 of the top 7 in an all time ODI side if the last page of this thread is to be believed, with two more of the top 7 to be filled in by Viv and de Villiers.

With arguments for Kapil in the tail as well.

It's garbage posting is what it is.

I don't agree with that as an AT ODI XI but honestly, your post that I have just quoted is the most garbage one in this thread.

 

[stephen]

It's funny that a side which had three of the top 7 destined for the all time side couldn't even make the world cup final this year, or 4 years ago for that matter. It's not like they even have the "we don't have any bowlers" excuse any more.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, its not like you need 11 players for a cricket team or anything, is it?

 

[harsh.ag]

WC wins guys. Oz having the superior teams makes the players in those teams individually better than players of the LOSER sides. Amirite?

 

[sunilz]

It's funny that a side which had three of the top 7 destined for the all time side couldn't even make the world cup final this year, or 4 years ago for that matter. It's not like they even have the "we don't have any bowlers" excuse any more.

You mean like a team with Smith ( 2nd best batsman after Bradman ), Lyon ( Best spin bowler in non-Asian condition ) and Cummins ( Best fast bowler according to ICC rankings ) is ranked no.5 in ICC test rankings in a sports with 8 decent teams.

 

[stephen]

Except that you're the one dismissing Sharma as an "overrated, modern stat padding flat track bully" while refusing to consider that Gilchrist may also have had technical weaknesses, just because he played in a previous era in a side that won World Cups.

EDIT : @Stephen

No, I haven't ever implied that I rate Gilchrist because he won some world cups. I've implied that if half the all time side is going to be Indians that they probably would have won more cups than they have.

Gilchrist was an ATG batsman who also happened to be a top shelf keeper. Rohit is an ATG batsman who has no other strings to his bow.

The same argument can be made wrt Bevan vs Dhoni. But if I'm going to pick Bevan+Gilchrist or Rohit+Dhoni for an all time side I'll take the former any day of the week and twice on Sundays. The opposite is true for a crap side.

Adjusted for era, Rohit and Bevan have the same weakness (an average strike rate), but in Bevan's case it's not a problem because of his role. But in an all time side Gilchrist's strike rate is far more valuable than Rohit's superior average. In a weak side average matters a lot more and so the opposite is true.

Number of hundreds is the most meaningless bullshit statistic for ODIs since it literally favours modern openers over all else and it implies that Warner has better than Viv.

 

[sunilz]

Gilchrist an ATG ODI batsman with 36 avg and 40 avg in WC . Let's end the debate here .

 

[honestbharani]

Gilchrist was a hard sell in an AT ODI XI even before Dhoni (and many folks even here picked him to bat 6 then). His test match success clouds and biases judgement on what are frankly average achievements (2007 WC aside) when speaking at ATG levels.

 

[Logan]

What a stupid logic.

Viv Richards, Desmond Haynes and Gordon Greenidge were 3 of the Top 5 run getters in the 1980s. All of them averaged 45+ in that decade. Joel Garner and Micheal Holding were the two best ODI bowlers in the 80s.

Yet West Indies didn’t win the 1983 World Cup, 1985 World Championship or the 1987 World Cup.

 

[Logan]

The best Test batsman and best Test bowler are Steve Smith and Pat Cummins. Yet Australia are placed 5th in the ICC Test rankings.

Does that diminish their talents or achievements?

 

[trundler]

Also, Sachin, Kapil and Rohit each played in wildly different eras so saying India should've won more because of them is ********.

 

[trundler]

And Symonds was basically Yuvraj level too

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, Sachin, Kapil and Rohit each played in wildly different eras so saying India should've won more because of them is ********.

Yeah it's a pretty poor point isn't it? if India have peak Sachin and Dhoni in 2015/19 they probably win. Australia were lucky to have so many great players all in the same era.

 

[Logan]

Dhoni averages 50 as a WK.
Gilchrist averages 35 as a WK.

Rohit averages 57 as an opener.
Gilchrist averages 36 as an opener.

 

[Logan]

Haynes, Greenidge, Richards, Holding and Garner were first choice picks for ODI team of the decade(1980s). Yet they didn’t win 1983 World Cup, 1985 World Championship or 1987 World Cup.

 

[Logan]

Gilchrist an ATG ODI batsman with 36 avg and 40 avg in WC . Let's end the debate here .

Gilchrist isn’t a ATG batsman in ODIs. Period.

 

[h_hurricane]

Fmd, India must have won 5 world cups in 4 different continents or something.

Australia won so many World Cups because the backup players were way better than the backup players of other countries. Not because the ATG players of Australia were at a far superior level to ATG players from other countries. Is this so difficult to understand ?

 

[Spark]

One-day stats are mostly useless and especially cross-era one-day stats but opening batsmen are probably the ones for which stats are the most reliable. I think Gilchrist is being a little underrated here - he was very, very, very good - but yeah I don't really see how you can say "Rohit is an ODI ATG opening batsman and better than Gilchrist" is just a one-eyed Indian supporter opinion. It strikes me as pretty reasonable tbh.

 

[vcs]

Australia won so many World Cups because the backup players were way better than the backup players of other countries. Not because the ATG players of Australia were at a far superior level to ATG players from other countries. Is this so difficult to understand ?

They had Andy Bichel, Fleming, Bracken, Tait, Hogg while we had Munaf Patel, Sreesanth, Dinesh Mongia, Dinesh Karthik etc. LOL.