The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[SillyCowCorner1]

RCB went for Dravid, Kallis, Kumble etc. in their first season and predictably flopped.

Also Chanderpaul

 

[ataraxia]

Kent also might have a strong team.

 

[morgieb]

Canberra Comets ATG XI (shortlist)

Brad Haddin+
Rod Tucker
Mike Veletta
Merv Hughes
Chris Adams
Anthony Stuart
Mark Higgs

Who else?

Lea Hansen played for Aus A, which I think was as high of a standard as Higgs played. Then you could consider the likes of Stuart Karppinen and Peter Solway even if they weren't that great.

Would we count other cricketers from Canberra too? (e.g. Bevan, Lyon)

 

[morgieb]

As long as they keep their grubby mitts off Boof it's fine

If you were picking overseas players based on how well they actually did at the county rather than merely who played for them, Lehmann is streets ahead of Tendulkar (even though he's obviously significantly inferior overall)

 

[CricAddict]

RCB went for Dravid, Kallis, Kumble etc. in their first season and predictably flopped.

Yeah, they were nicknamed a test team for a long time.

 

[marc71178]

Surely you can put in Sachin for Yorkshire?

I missed his decade plus long career in county cricket.

 

[jimmy101]

Counting Futures League too?

If so then Gazza is a shoe in, Jason Behrendorff maybe too?

Lea Hansen played for Aus A, which I think was as high of a standard as Higgs played. Then you could consider the likes of Stuart Karppinen and Peter Solway even if they weren't that great.

Would we count other cricketers from Canberra too? (e.g. Bevan, Lyon)

So the best XI they could probably muster from their original 97 - 00 run would be something along the lines of...

Brad Haddin+
Mike Veletta*
Peter Solway
Chris Adams
Rod Tucker
Graeme Cunningham
Mark Higgs
Merv Hughes
Anthony Stuart
Stuart Karppinen
Lea Hansen

Everything else considered, Bevan in for Cunningham, Lyon in for Hansen & Behrendorff in for Stuart.

 

[Coronis]

Hayden
Hanif
Hutton
Lara
Jayawardene
Sobers
Wasim+
Laker
Kumble
Lohmann
Muralitharan

 

[Flem274*]

north island

sutcliffe
dempster
williamson
crowe
taylor
watling
reid
vettori
southee
boult
cowie

south island

wright
richardson
turner
fleming
astle
cairns
mccullum
hadlee
burtt
bond
wagner

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Durban is in the NZ North Island and Pretoria is on the South Island?

ITSTL

 

[Flem274*]

clarrie grimmett rule of who steals them first

edit - england rule more apt

 

[GoodAreasShane]

clarrie grimmett rule of who steals them first

You Kiwis barely even noticed Grimmet existed, your own loss

Seriously though, Watling and Wagner are fairly different cases. Watling moved to NZ fairly young, developed his game in the Kiwi system. Wagner on the other hand had already played a fair bit of FC cricket in South Africa, only a couple of games for the Titans where he looked nothing special but had a beast like record in the 3 day stuff.

Wagner has more in common with KP and Archer, where as Watling is more like someone like Labuschagne, in terms of cricketing upbringing

 

[AndrewB]

Kent also might have a strong team.

The problem for Kent is clear when you look at the players they named as their 12 legends for the "Legends' Walkway"; besides Mynn as a great early figure and overseas player John Shepherd, they named 3 batsmen (Cowdrey, Luckhurst, Woolley), 3 keepers (Ames, Evans, Knott) and 4 spinners (Blythe, Freeman, Wright, Underwood). Their all-time (English, post-1860s) XI is going to be something like

Brian Luckhurst
Mike Denness
Robert Key
Frank Woolley
Colin Cowdrey
Percy Chapman
Les Ames+
Jack Mason
Graham Dilley
Tich Freeman/Derek Underwood
Arthur Fielder

Other counties would probably be stronger, e.g. Lancs
Cyril Washbrook
Geoff Pullar
Mike Atherton
Ernest Tyldesley
Eddie Paynter
Allan Steel
Andrew Flintoff
Johnny Briggs
George Duckworth+
Brian Statham
James Anderson

but I don't think any of them challenge Yorks/Surrey as the top two.

 

[ataraxia]

The problem for Kent is clear when you look at the players they named as their 12 legends for the "Legends' Walkway"; besides Mynn as a great early figure and overseas player John Shepherd, they named 3 batsmen (Cowdrey, Luckhurst, Woolley), 3 keepers (Ames, Evans, Knott) and 4 spinners (Blythe, Freeman, Wright, Underwood). Their all-time (English, post-1860s) XI is going to be something like

Brian Luckhurst
Mike Denness
Robert Key
Frank Woolley
Colin Cowdrey
Percy Chapman
Les Ames+
Jack Mason
Graham Dilley
Tich Freeman/Derek Underwood
Arthur Fielder

Other counties would probably be stronger, e.g. Lancs
Cyril Washbrook
Geoff Pullar
Mike Atherton
Ernest Tyldesley
Eddie Paynter
Allan Steel
Andrew Flintoff
Johnny Briggs
George Duckworth+
Brian Statham
James Anderson

but I don't think any of them challenge Yorks/Surrey as the top two.

Oh lol that's terrible. Think I saw Deadly, Woolley, Ames, Chapman, and Freeman rolling through randomly and thought it would be strong. Three best English keepers though sheesh.

 

[jimmy101]

Perhaps Arthur Fagg, or Bob Woolmer in for Rob Key in that Kent XI? Could also even play Ames as a specialist bat & have Knott/Evans in as 'keeper.

Kent's strength seems to be in its spin stocks, apart from Freeman & Underwood you also have Doug Wright.

 

[AndrewB]

Perhaps Arthur Fagg, or Bob Woolmer in for Rob Key in that Kent XI? Could also even play Ames as a specialist bat & have Knott/Evans in as 'keeper.

Kent's strength seems to be in its spin stocks, apart from Freeman & Underwood you also have Doug Wright.

Yes, forgot about Woolmer. You can have Ames + Knott(+) instead of Chapman + Ames(+) if you like.

They also had Colin Blythe. By their all-time third XI they'd have a world-class spinner and keeper surrounded by (relative) mediocrities.

Middlesex also have a decent XI:
Andrew Strauss
Jack Robertson
Denis Compton
Bill Edrich
Patsy Hendren
Mike Gatting
John Murray
Fred Titmus
Gubby Allen
Jack T Hearne
Angus Fraser

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Anyone instead of the idiot Robert Key for Kent. Even Chris Tavare.

 

[a massive zebra]

If you were picking overseas players based on how well they actually did at the county rather than merely who played for them, Lehmann is streets ahead of Tendulkar (even though he's obviously significantly inferior overall)

Also, if we are selecting players on how they actually did for their county rather than their overall reputation and international record, then:

1. Stanley Jackson was convincingly outclassed by his own colleague George Hirst.
2. Joe Root is totally blown out of the water by Darren Lehmann.
3. Mark Ramprakash has a stronger claim than Ken Barrington, Graeme Thorpe and possibly Tom Hayward.
4. Hedley Verity walks into the Yorkshire side, even if Rhodes is already a lock in the team. Verity took 1,558 wickets for Yorkshire @ 13, easily the best county bowling average of any English based 20th century bowler with more than 250 first class wickets.

 

[a massive zebra]

Only selecting guys if they played the majority of their career in that domestic team, these are the three strongest teams, surely.


Yorkshire

H. Sutcliffe
G. Boycott
L. Hutton
J.Root
S. Jackson
M. Leyland
J. Bairstow
W. Rhodes
B. Bowes
D. Gough
F. Trueman

Several of these guys, while class international players with excellent reputations, either didn't play much for Yorkshire or were outperformed by others when they did. This would be a more accurate reflection of a Yorkshire All Time XI, if based on actual performances for the county:

H. Sutcliffe
G. Boycott
L. Hutton
D. Lehmann
M. Leyland
G. Hirst
J. Bairstow +
W. Rhodes
H. Verity
F. Trueman
W. Bowes

 

[ataraxia]

I prefer making XIs which reflect a player's entire career rather than a player's county career. Think Rhodes should be included anyway though.