*Official* England in New Zealand 2019

[Fuller Pilch]

Santner at #7 and 4 seamers is also an option.

Actually that's a point. Matt Henry is pretty decent with the bat.

 

[Bahnz]

I've heard Kiwi crowds giving a bit of abuse to overseas players, but it has never been race based. This is very sad for Archer and I hope he gets the support he needs, but it was also only 1 person being racist.

Regarding the selection I guess Mitchell is the most similar to CDG, but what did Neesham do wrong? Nathan Smith could bat 7 (he's at 4 for Otago) and is a better bowler than Mitchell but that would be a huge punt, and Santner's performance in the last game would've counted against Ravindra. I guess Kugglelijn could've been another option but he's more of an 8 than a 7 and isn't a holding bowler.

If we weren't going to Australia I'd probably just play Blundell as a specialist batsman, but they probably don't want the bowlers to be too tired out, so would like a 5th bowler.

Apparently there were people in the crowd on days 2 and 3 telling him he should go back to Jamaica and that he should be playing for WI - though it's debatable whether that's racism, we've had pretty similar discussions on CW about the ethics of England snapping him up (though Archer is obviously Bajan and not Jamaican).

 

[thierry henry]

Apparently there were people in the crowd on days 2 and 3 telling him he should go back to Jamaica and that he should be playing for WI - though it's debatable whether that's racism, we've had pretty similar discussions on CW about the ethics of England snapping him up (though Archer is obviously Bajan and not Jamaican).

While CW seems to take a very harsh view of anyone even discussing the issue, I absolutely maintain it's not RACIST to say that Archer should be playing for the West Indies and not England.

Obviously it's hard to tease out the nuances of the situation in sledge form but surely the obvious inference is not racism but a criticism of him for not playing for the area which he grew up in?

Am I racist for not liking Stokes?

 

[ataraxia]

While CW seems to take a very harsh view of anyone even discussing the issue, I absolutely maintain it's not RACIST to say that Archer should be playing for the West Indies and not England.

Obviously it's hard to tease out the nuances of the situation in sledge form but surely the obvious inference is not racism but a criticism of him for not playing for the area which he grew up in?

Am I racist for not liking Stokes?

Yes you are. You are racist towards New Zealanders.

 

[thierry henry]

He's also averaging 211 with the bat and 12 with the ball this FC season

This whole discussion has got me doing a recap of Neesham's career now and tbh it's a little mystifying why he was ever dropped from the test team in the first place, unless I am forgetting some big intervening event.

 

[thierry henry]

Yes you are. You are racist towards New Zealanders.

haha well yeah, this does highlight the absurdity of calling it racist - what I'm really calling out is the lack of pride in his homeland. So saying Archer should be proud to represent his West Indian heritage is.....racist against West Indians?

 

[ataraxia]

This whole discussion has got me doing a recap of Neesham's career now and tbh it's a little mystifying why he was ever dropped from the test team in the first place, unless I am forgetting some big intervening event.

Test bowling average perhaps?

 

[Bahnz]

While CW seems to take a very harsh view of anyone even discussing the issue, I absolutely maintain it's not RACIST to say that Archer should be playing for the West Indies and not England.

Obviously it's hard to tease out the nuances of the situation in sledge form but surely the obvious inference is not racism but a criticism of him for not playing for the area which he grew up in?

Am I racist for not liking Stokes?

Yeah, nor was it racist to wind up KP for not playing for SA back in the day. The "go back to Jamaica" part of it is a bit toe-curling though.

 

[thierry henry]

Test bowling average perhaps?

Fair enough, I was mostly reading through the scores and hardly paying attention to the meagre bowling contributions.

I guess what happened was Corey Anderson was seen as the better player but not sufficiently fit, hence Neesham getting his chances. Anderson got fit enough and got taken on the 2015 tour of England before breaking down again.

 

[Chewie]

This whole discussion has got me doing a recap of Neesham's career now and tbh it's a little mystifying why he was ever dropped from the test team in the first place, unless I am forgetting some big intervening event.

Those are Mitchell's stats, not Neesham's

 

[Prince EWS]

This whole discussion has got me doing a recap of Neesham's career now and tbh it's a little mystifying why he was ever dropped from the test team in the first place, unless I am forgetting some big intervening event.

Lord Colin got picked at a time where he was going to extremely suited to the conditions and Neesham's form wasn't great, and he's just never let go of the spot since.

 

[thierry henry]

Lord Colin got picked at a time where he was going to extremely suited to the conditions and Neesham's form wasn't great, and he's just never let go of the spot since.

Nah there was like a 2 year gap...Neesham effectively got discarded after the 2014/15 series against Sri Lanka. After Anderson played the first test in England in 2015, we played a number of tests without an all-rounder, or with Santner as all-rounder, until CDG came along in 2016/17.

Neesham wasn't exactly setting the world on fire but he was discarded pretty swiftly given he scored centuries in his first 2 tests. I daresay in retrospect it was a case of ODI hysteria from the World Cup filtering into test selection - Neesham was chopped liver in ODIs so he was chopped liver across the board.

 

[Bahnz]

I think Neesh might've also had injury problems around the time. CdG's ongoing test success is definitely the biggest shock of my time following NZ cricket. I was so sure he was going to be a 25 averaging batsman and a 1 wicket a game bowler (at best).

 

[Athlai]

It's pretty clear that the a lot of people in NZC take a bit of umbrage with Neesham's personality. I mean Hesson roasted him on air ffs. Was super unprofessional. Surprised more people didn't find that really really weird.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah there was like a 2 year gap...Neesham effectively got discarded after the 2014/15 series against Sri Lanka. After Anderson played the first test in England in 2015, we played a number of tests without an all-rounder, or with Santner as all-rounder, until CDG came along in 2016/17.

Yeah I still think it was more of a balance thing until CdG. He was still first (or possibly second if Corey was fit - which was always kinda the case) fast bowling allrounder for that time. He was in lots of squads. He was never selected an actual batsman - he debuted at #8 - and he never bowled well in Tests. It was Colin's debut that really put him on the outside after previously being a bench balance option (where he randomly got games every so often).

 

[Bahnz]

Nah there was like a 2 year gap...Neesham effectively got discarded after the 2014/15 series against Sri Lanka. After Anderson played the first test in England in 2015, we played a number of tests without an all-rounder, or with Santner as all-rounder, until CDG came along in 2016/17.

Neesham wasn't exactly setting the world on fire but he was discarded pretty swiftly given he scored centuries in his first 2 tests. I daresay in retrospect it was a case of ODI hysteria from the World Cup filtering into test selection - Neesham was chopped liver in ODIs so he was chopped liver across the board.

Neesham did play in the first test of the 2015 tour of Australia, though he did poorly if memory serves. Anderson won his spot back and did Ok in his last test v Australia, but then he too broke down with injury. Then we were in India, were an allrounder of the Anderson/Neesh variety would probably be seen as adding little value to the side in comparison to Santner. It wasn't long after that that Colin made his debut, and I'm guessing (though I don't remember) that it was because both of them were injured at the time.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah I still think it was more of a balance thing until CdG. He was still first (or possibly second if Corey was fit - which was always kinda the case) fast bowling allrounder for that time. He was in lots of squads. He was never selected an actual batsman - he debuted at #8 - and he never bowled well in Tests. It was Colin's debut that really put him on the outside after previously being a bench balance option (where he randomly got games every so often).

Yeah and Neesh did play the odd test in between...I guess the most baffling thing was him initially getting dropped for the 2015 England tour, but he was probably injured and I've forgotten.

 

[Prince EWS]

Neesham did play in the first test of the 2015 tour of Australia, though he did poorly if memory serves. Anderson won his spot back and did Ok in his last test v Australia, but then he too broke down with injury. Then we were in India, were an allrounder of the Anderson/Neesh variety would probably be seen as adding little value to the side in comparison to Santner. It wasn't long after that that Colin made his debut, and I'm guessing (though I don't remember) that it was because both of them were injured at the time.

I think I remember people being a bit ???? about Neesham not getting selected in that Lord Colin debut game. And I think it only really happened because it was green af.

Colin took three in the first session and six on Day 1. History was written.

 

[thierry henry]

It's pretty clear that the a lot of people in NZC take a bit of umbrage with Neesham's personality. I mean Hesson roasted him on air ffs. Was super unprofessional. Surprised more people didn't find that really really weird.

When is it just going to be universally accepted that McHesson are a couple of dickheads who inspired those in their inner circle to play some effective alpha bro cricket for a few years.

 

[straw man]

It's pretty clear that the a lot of people in NZC take a bit of umbrage with Neesham's personality. I mean Hesson roasted him on air ffs. Was super unprofessional. Surprised more people didn't find that really really weird.

I didn't hear that but did read about it - sounds like an amazingly poor thing to say.