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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

trundler

trundler

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Burgey said:
Yeah that may well be the case, but I don't know that there were all that many of them even back in the pre-war era were there? You tended to have your spinners being specialists whereas your ARs were seamers. It might be because your spinners are expected to bowl bulk overs so you lean more towards a specialist, whereas an AR is sometimes picked to be the third or fourth quick and bowl yer 10-12 a day sort of thing.
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It probably is the workload. On the other hand, lots of T20 mercenaries bowl meme spin.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Spin bowling takes a lot of practice, moreso than pace bowling (because you physically can't practice pace that much), so it's relatively less time consuming to be a pace bowling all rounder. There's also a much greater mental aspect to spin bowling which requires more thought than "top of off stump" every ball.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Whaddya guys think about a voting thread for the decade team similar to what we did a few years ago with the ATG XI’s?
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Well you asked what we thought about it. Don't bitch and moan when people do you the courtesy of responding to the very question you asked.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
@Stephen :
Since you used 5wkt haul to compare Jadeja and Shakib , Can we also use 5 wkt and 10 wkt haul to compare Mcgrath vs Steyn or Warne vs Murali ?
 
jimmy101

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
An ever better metric imo would be to rank them based on how far each of them can open their eyelids. Steyn & Murali would come out on top easily here.

Then again, if we judge them based on how many SPC commercials each of them have done, Warney takes the cake here.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
stephen said:
It's hard to argue Jadeja with a straight face when he has spent so much time carrying the drinks and has only been trundler out in friendly conditions. It's hard to argue Shakib when he skips unfriendly tests. It's hard to argue stokes when he should be in prison.

Shakib edges it even if he did go entirely missing on the South Africa tour.
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sunilz said:
@Stephen :
Since you used 5wkt haul to compare Jadeja and Shakib , Can we also use 5 wkt and 10 wkt haul to compare Mcgrath vs Steyn or Warne vs Murali ?
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Struggling to see where I compared them using 5 wicket hauls.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
OverratedSanity said:
Shakib>Jadeja by a mile imo.
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For mine this is true in terms of career but (even ban aside) I'd probably take Jadeja for a game right now, and that opens the door for him to continue to prove himself with the bat and reduce that gap. Maybe not before the decade is over, but in terms of a Shakib v Jadeja comparison when they finish up I think it's a closeable gap.

One thing I'll say is that picking them both to play in the same team even if they're both amongst the best eleven cricketers of the decade is pretty crazy though. Having not one but two left arm orthodox spinners who neither quite justify their positions on batting or bowling is a big no thanks for me. I'm happy to pick one as the balance option allrounder (it'd be Shakib for now but I'd take Jadeja instead if Shakib wasn't allowed) but there's no way I'm picking both.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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sunilz said:
No he isn't if you exclude Zimbabwe , AFG and IRE
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
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Shakib's numbers barely change whether you take the minnows out or not.

And it's not just about the stats anyway. We're taking all round ability here, and shakib has produced with bat and ball together in so many games and put in peak Botham like performances the likes of which Jadeja can't touch. Like the 8 wickets + crucial 84 when the team was on the verge of collapse vs Australia. Or the 7 wickets + century to beat herath and Co to give Bangladesh a win in their 100th test. Etc. Shakib has ruined his reputation with the SA tour and the fixing stuff and I'll hold it against him severely when he retires. But as of now, he's a couple of levels above jaddu as a cricketer.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Prince EWS said:
For mine this is true in terms of career but (even ban aside) I'd probably take Jadeja for a game right now, and that opens the door for him to continue to prove himself with the bat and reduce that gap. Maybe not before the decade is over, but in terms of a Shakib v Jadeja comparison when they finish up I think it's a closeable gap.

One thing I'll say is that picking them both to play in the same team even if they're both amongst the best eleven cricketers of the decade is pretty crazy though. Having not one but two left arm orthodox spinners who neither quite justify their positions on batting or bowling is a big no thanks for me. I'm happy to pick one as the balance option allrounder (it'd be Shakib for now but I'd take Jadeja instead if Shakib wasn't allowed) but there's no way I'm picking both.
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Well obviously we're talking about the whole decade here. Right now you'd pick Jadeja because he doesn't chicken and out of overseas tours or fix games (that we know of). But overall throughout the decade, it's not close
 
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