Why aren't there more spinner all rounders?

[ataraxia]

Ok let's move on but remember that Hutton and Sobers played in conditions much harder than what Chanders and ABDV did and averaged more.

 

[Jack1]

Putting Lohmann and SF Barnes in is okay but putting Chanders, ABDV, Billy Barnes, Bates, and Barrington is not. ABDV does have a case as keeper though.

Just so u know Barrington averaged 77.24 in 40 inns. ABDV 62.11 at 5 (74 inns) nd SC 64.82 at 6 (49 inns)

I don’t think you should let emotion get the better of you. It’s just a casual debate . Most of it is debatable but I consider Bradman, Sutcliffe and Barrington as a locked top 3 no matter what in all eras.

 

[Jack1]

Ok let's move on but remember that Hutton and Sobers played in conditions much harder than what Chanders and ABDV did and averaged more.

Just remember that it is position dependant. If you look at their batting in depth they fluctuate on average depending on where they bat, all the atg players . Barrington got batted out of position most of his career he was really a 3 or an opener but he played in stacked sides at test and county level and got badly mismanaged as a player hence his ludicrous record at 3

Btw Sutclifde is a leftie too anyone that’s right handed would want to open with Sutcliffe playing another atg team for thenRH LH combo is there even ignoring the fact he never averaged sub 60 at any stage making him the number one opener anyway imo (apart from Bradman who would dominate everywhere and in my opinion more so at 1 with everyone else behind/below him)

 

[ataraxia]

Just so u know Barrington averaged 77.24 in 40 inns. ABDV 62.11 at 5 (74 inns) nd SC 64.82 at 6 (49 inns)

I don’t think you should let emotion get the better of you. It’s just a casual debate . Most of it is debatable but I consider Bradman, Sutcliffe and Barrington as a locked top 3 no matter what in all eras.

Bradman never opened. You can't expect him to open.

 

[Jack1]

Bradman never opened. You can't expect him to open.

I can considering he averaged 100 and batted 3. You need to think about the psychological side of the game too. There’s an argument for no recognised opener in an atg team considering batting 3 in a test is almost opening. If Sutcliffe was right handed maybe anyways. Let’s stop lol

 

[ataraxia]

Just remember that it is position dependant. If you look at their batting in depth they fluctuate on average depending on where they bat, all the atg players . Barrington got batted out of position most of his career he was really a 3 or an opener but he played in stacked sides at test and county level and got badly mismanaged as a player hence his ludicrous record at 3

Btw Sutclifde is a leftie too anyone that’s right handed would want to open with Sutcliffe playing another atg team for thenRH LH combo is there even ignoring the fact he never averaged sub 60 at any stage making him the number one opener anyway imo (apart from Bradman who would dominate everywhere and in my opinion more so at 1 with everyone else behind/below him)

You have to consider that it isn't where they bat, it's what time they bat. If they played in a good side at 4 they would come in later than in a bad side at 4. We have to assume that other World XIs are the same quality as ours thus most players come in earlier than they might expect in their normal side. ABDV averaged more keeping than Gilchrist so by your method he should keep (and Gilly should probs play as specialist bat at 7).

 

[Jack1]

You have to consider that it isn't where they bat, it's what time they bat. If they played in a good side at 4 they would come in later than in a bad side at 4. We have to assume that other World XIs are the same quality as ours thus most players come in earlier than they might expect in their normal side. ABDV averaged more keeping than Gilchrist so by your method he should keep (and Gilly should probs play as specialist bat at 7).

Why? Gilchrist is a better keeper you have to factor that in too.

I don’t agree, if you’re next in you’re next in and don’t really care about time mentally . Good players will stay set to bat in next or based on position . That’s my opinion I’m not posting again now, fielding is a factor too if u want to get right down to it. Steve Smith for me is locked at 4 too and could average 70 overall. Just remember these guys don’t have to be your mates you can hate them and still pick them I try to be fair but it’s all an opinion. In a test match I’m not keen on De villiers keeping and he’s a very good outfielder too Gilchrist isn’t so de villiers keeping and Gilchrist outfielder is a really strange idea

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bradman never opened. You can't expect him to open.

Don't fully know the context of this comment but it would be a pretty safe bet that Bradman would do much better job opening than any actual openers in history

 

[ataraxia]

Don't fully know the context of this comment but it would be a pretty safe bet that Bradman would do much better job opening than any actual openers in history

Yeah fair enough but it's best for the balance of the team that he goes at 3. IMO the ATG openers are better than the middle-order batsmen and face a tougher task.

 

[steve132]

Just remember that it is position dependant. If you look at their batting in depth they fluctuate on average depending on where they bat, all the atg players . Barrington got batted out of position most of his career he was really a 3 or an opener but he played in stacked sides at test and county level and got badly mismanaged as a player hence his ludicrous record at 3

Btw Sutclifde is a leftie too anyone that’s right handed would want to open with Sutcliffe playing another atg team for thenRH LH combo is there even ignoring the fact he never averaged sub 60 at any stage making him the number one opener anyway imo (apart from Bradman who would dominate everywhere and in my opinion more so at 1 with everyone else behind/below him)

Which Sutcliffe are you describing here - Hobbs's long term partner Herbert Sutcliffe, or the post-war New Zealand opener Bert Sutcliffe?

 

[Jack1]

Herbert. For one reason or another my mind thinks I read him as left handed, I haven't read about him in years. rest of the post is irrelevant so I slashed it . . SCC1 has moved it back to the OP which i'm glad for

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

A spinner's century that I adore up to this day:

Mohammad Rafique's against us in early 2000s.

 

[h_hurricane]

Sobers was streets ahead of Jadeja as an allrounder and the best in history but he was not much of a spinner. He was world class for a decade(1960s) as a medium pacer and that is how he will be used in an ATG team. Of course, he could be used a second spinning option with Warne or Murali, but he wouldn't be all that effective in that role.