Why aren't there more spinner all rounders?

[GoodAreasShane]

Haha yeah I think you'd think he was over-rated regardless, but I absolutely get the feeling that if it happened to some young quick Australian bowler whose career you were following you'd be all about the narrative I painted in the post above, even if just to put some nuance into your "lol over-rated hack" opinion of the guy.

Ehh fair enough

 

[Burgey]

***** is the hero CW needs.

This is a **** take.

Bowl spinners, don’t you mate?

 

[cpr]

Yeah, as a kid I figured I had two choices
A) Run half the length of the field 120 times a day just to see it nick off down to the boundary
B) Save myself the effort and not suffer 7 stress fractures a season.

So I chose C) and stood behind the stumps instead.

Though when I was bowling during my school days, I chose leg spin over my seam bowling. I was actually one of the most accurate bowlers, though lacked any real pace. In practice games I could pick off anyone who wasn't a decent batsmen just by putting it just in front of their toes and letting them get themselves out, but it was no fun. I much preferred playing about with putting the ball where they thought they could hit some runs, only to watch it come back on them and leave them looking foolish.
Keeping to spinners was more fun too

 

[Burgey]

Keeping to spinners certainly is fun, likewise fielding in slips. They’re also awesome as a batsman to get you from 40 to 80 quickly.

I think one of the really bad parts of the rise of the lesser cricket nations in the past couple of decades has been this idea that spinners deserve respect. It’s infested even the highest levels. The fact is, they don’t. No batsman worth their salt should treat spinners as anything other than boundary delivery systems.

 

[ataraxia]

Keeping to spinners certainly is fun, likewise fielding in slips. They’re also awesome as a batsman to get you from 40 to 80 quickly.

I think one of the really bad parts of the rise of the lesser cricket nations in the past couple of decades has been this idea that spinners deserve respect. It’s infested even the highest levels. The fact is, they don’t. No batsman worth their salt should treat spinners as anything other than boundary delivery systems.

Say that to the Australians who faced Laker in that 19-for. Or tbf the South Africans who faced Ashwin and Jadeja.

So there's no point having spinners against the Don on a green pitch?

 

[Burgey]

Errghh.

Your post proves the point - they're too conditions-dependent to be worthy humans, let alone cricketers. My grandmother could bowl out the current SA side, and she died in 2014. They're pathetic. But if they played Ashwon't and Jadeja away, how do you reckon the latter would perform?

I'll tell you. Like crap. You have all these people saying Ashwon't belongs in an ATG Indian side - fmd the **** is meant to be in the top couple of bowlers in the world and an Indian ATG, and he got dropped from the test side when they played away out here last summer? It's embarrassing to categorize him or any other finger spinner as anything besides a waste of space unless they're bowling in a moon crater. The whole discipline is just a blight on a great sport. Piss it off.

Let's get fair dinkum here. When did India actually become a proper test side instead of home track bullies? When they developed a good pace attack. In other words, about two years ago. It's because they have good pace bowlers that they've gone to the next level, not because of Ashwon't and Jadeja, who are basically just run making opportunities for the opposition when they have to play in real conditions.

There's a reason why Indian fans can for the first time ever be justifiably excited about their side, instead of being full of the empty piss and wind they have been for the rest of their cricket history. And that reason is they have developed a cabal of very good quicks. It isn't because they have yet another offie or SLA bowler who are great at home but embarrassing away. They've had the latter for the better part of a century of abject mediocrity and were rightly a laughing stock. On balance, pace bowlers win tests across the world. That's why, if you're a great player of spin but flinch at a ball which is chest height, you're probably categorized as rubbish and effete.

The fact blokes like ***** sing the praises of spinners is one of the many reasons no one takes him seriously.

 

[srbhkshk]

Errghh.

Your post proves the point - they're too conditions-dependent to be worthy humans, let alone cricketers. My grandmother could bowl out the current SA side, and she died in 2014. They're pathetic. But if they played Ashwon't and Jadeja away, how do you reckon the latter would perform?

I'll tell you. Like crap. You have all these people saying Ashwon't belongs in an ATG Indian side - fmd the **** is meant to be in the top couple of bowlers in the world and an Indian ATG, and he got dropped from the test side when they played away out here last summer? It's embarrassing to categorize him or any other finger spinner as anything besides a waste of space unless they're bowling in a moon crater. The whole discipline is just a blight on a great sport. Piss it off.

Let's get fair dinkum here. When did India actually become a proper test side instead of home track bullies? When they developed a good pace attack. In other words, about two years ago. It's because they have good pace bowlers that they've gone to the next level, not because of Ashwon't and Jadeja, who are basically just run making opportunities for the opposition when they have to play in real conditions.

There's a reason why Indian fans can for the first time ever be justifiably excited about their side, instead of being full of the empty piss and wind they have been for the rest of their cricket history. And that reason is they have developed a cabal of very good quicks. It isn't because they have yet another offie or SLA bowler who are great at home but embarrassing away. They've had the latter for the better part of a century of abject mediocrity and were rightly a laughing stock. On balance, pace bowlers win tests across the world. That's why, if you're a great player of spin but flinch at a ball which is chest height, you're probably categorized as rubbish and effete.

The fact blokes like ***** sing the praises of spinners is one of the many reasons no one takes him seriously.

All of this can be reversed to point out that non Indian batsmen are useless muppets who can only dare to face Ashwin and Jadeja away from their pet conditions.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How tf is it that people still respond to Burgey's anti-spin, anti-Asia schtick as if it's a serious argument

 

[ataraxia]

How tf is it that people still respond to Burgey's anti-spin, anti-Asia schtick as if it's a serious argument

Yeah fair enough. I get that Burgey's a specimen of homo sapiens right now. Aka stupid and singleminded. Good thing us aliens are more intelligent.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Yeah fair enough. I get that Burgey's a specimen of homo sapiens right now. Aka stupid and singleminded. Good thing us aliens are more intelligent.

Not so sure about that one Simon

 

[Burgey]

All of this can be reversed to point out that non Indian batsmen are useless muppets who can only dare to face Ashwin and Jadeja away from their pet conditions.

This literally makes zero sense. These sides face them home and away. Very good-to- great teams and players cope in a variety of conditions. This idea I'm having a pot shot at the Indian side is ****ing ludicrous when I've literally said they've now got a legit claim to having a great side. But they've got that claim because they now have decent quicks who can take wickets anywhere instead of relying on spud finger spinners who melt into nothing when it isn't turning square.

You say how good a side's going, give reasons why it's happening and you still get ****wits like TJB saying it's anti-Asian. Literally praise an Asian side as being genuinely awesome - "You're anti-Asian."

Of course I'm anti-spinners. Anyone with half a brain knows if you have a quick bowler who's of the same comparable standard as a spinner, the quick bowler will be more effective across a broader range of conditions. Spinners are just a low breed of cricketer, for the valid reasons I've stated.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah fair enough. I get that Burgey's a specimen of homo sapiens right now. Aka stupid and singleminded. Good thing us aliens are more intelligent.

Good chat.

 

[trundler]

There's no actual reason to think a SENA bully is better than an SC bully. One is a lot more fun to watch but that's it.

 

[Burgey]

The point here is if you're good across a range of conditions then you're not any type of bully. You're just a really good player.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I think Shakib's arm ball is one of the deadliest.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There's no actual reason to think a SENA bully is better than an SC bully. One is a lot more fun to watch but that's it.

racism?

I mean seriously though technically SC is one relatively small region of the world compared to "SENA" (as you put it) which is pretty much everywhere else that plays cricket. Hence it's certainly understandable, from a certain point of view, that someone good at playing "everywhere else" would be rated higher than someone good at playing in just that small region of the world

 

[Burgey]

I think Shakib's arm ball is one of the deadliest.

I’m jealous when people have good arm balls. I bowled arm balls all my life and rarely got a wicket.

Of course, I was actually trying to turn them but just didn’t.

 

[ataraxia]

I’m jealous when people have good arm balls. I bowled arm balls all my life and rarely got a wicket.

Of course, I was actually trying to turn them but just didn’t.

Same here.

All they do is bounce far too high.

 

[vcs]

There's no actual reason to think a SENA bully is better than an SC bully. One is a lot more fun to watch but that's it.

I'm not holding my breath while waiting for Rabada to get the same sort of criticism that comes Ashwin/Jadeja's way.

FTR, I love Rabada - brilliant bowler. But there's a definite double standard.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Are we still pretending that "arm balls" are still actually a thing? Let's be honest 99% of the time, especially in the subcontinent, they are just natural variation, ie. regular deliveries where a part of the ball hits a part of the pitch in a way that it just goes straight on.

Very rarely see genuine arm-balls these days. Michael Beer had a great one that was basically his stock ball in the BBL a couple years ago.

I'm not holding my breath while waiting for Rabada to get the same sort of criticism that comes Ashwin/Jadeja's way.

FTR, I love Rabada - brilliant bowler. But there's a definite double standard.

What do you see as Rabada's limitations? Only good on bouncy wickets?