Smith v Kohli (test match batting)

[h_hurricane]

As far as the thread goes, Kohli = (Smith+Root)/2 or greater than (Smith+Williamson+Root)/3.

 

[mr_mister]

@arachnadouche I just feel captains know they have to always put the team first, make aggressive declarations and can't appear to be playing for personal milestones, but deep down they value them just as much.

There was no way Virat could have ever gone for the 300 last match without a million pundits unleashing on him from every direction but you can be damn sure he wanted it

 

[Daemon]

@arachnadouche I just feel captains know they have to always put the team first, make aggressive declarations and can't appear to be playing for personal milestones, but deep down they value them just as much.

There was no way Virat could have ever gone for the 300 last match without a million pundits unleashing on him from every direction but you can be damn sure he wanted it

Deep down I'm sure they all value the stats, but as with most things, it's a sliding scale and I don't think it ranks very highly on Kohli's agenda.

The way he batted for the declaration both this game and last tells me enough about him trying to protect his average through a not out or whatever at the very least.

 

[Burner]

Bit silly to say that when the bloke had gone full agricultural mode after 200.

 

[Daemon]

Bit silly to say that when the bloke had gone full agricultural mode after 200.

That's my point

 

[Slifer]

That's what I like about Smith. If he was about his stats ala a chanderpaul, he could easily have had a few more not outs up his sleeve. The most recent ashes series confirmed it for me. Several of those innings could've been not out but he slogged to get as much runs on the board as possible. Imagine what his average would be if he were more selfish. WAG!!!

 

[rtramdas]

I assume.you mean to alter the line and length to 5th stump or so？People are thinking the stokes comparison means you are suggesting a line down leg, which would basically just solve the problem of Bradman's average being an outlier.

Fmd. they tried it all series and it cost them literally hundreds. It's like saying Bradman had a weakness against leg spin because Hollies KO'ed him in his last innings with a wrong 'un. It's terrible logic. If teams want to bowl at Smith's hip then they're going to be chasing more leather than anyone thought it possible to humanly chase.

You realise teams have been trying that exact tactic against him regularly over the last 5 years right? And he still averages like 75 in that time?

I firmly believe that once a batsman commits early to leg side while the bowler is about to deliver the ball(as Smith does with his trigger movement) he loses a bit of balance at the crease. For instance a lot of much better balanced batsmen like Gavaskar,Sachin,Border etc would have ducked into that Jofra Archer bouncer at least with a bit of difficulty but Smith couldn't because he was trapped cramping for room because of his awkward movement and there by being off balance. In that final dismissal of his for 23 too, Broad put in a bit more effort to bang it in a bit more higher and Smith couldn't keep the ball down because of his bit of off balance due to trigger movement.

In both the above instances what actually happend was that once he committed to that trigger movement in advance , he couldn't adjust in accordance to the slightest bit of variation at the last minute from the bowler's side which other more orthodox great batsmen would have been able to handle with a bit of unease at least. This is the problem with Smith's technique as I perceive. So moving forward it would be interesting as to how rest of the word team analysts would be trying to counter him.

Any way Smith is a great batsman for sure and let us wait and watch.. would be a great spectacle...

 

[TheJediBrah]

I firmly believe that once a batsman commits early to leg side while the bowler is about to deliver the ball(as Smith does with his trigger movement) he loses a bit of balance at the crease. For instance a lot of much better balanced batsmen like Gavaskar,Sachin,Border etc would have ducked into that Jofra Archer bouncer at least with a bit of difficulty but Smith couldn't because he was trapped cramping for room because of his awkward movement and there by being off balance. In that final dismissal of his for 23 too, Broad put in a bit more effort to bang it in a bit more higher and Smith couldn't keep the ball down because of his bit of off balance due to trigger movement.

In both the above instances what actually happend was that once he committed to that trigger movement in advance , he couldn't adjust in accordance to the slightest bit of variation at the last minute from the bowler's side which other more orthodox great batsmen would have been able to handle with a bit of unease at least. This is the problem with Smith's technique as I perceive. So moving forward it would be interesting as to how rest of the word team analysts would be trying to counter him.

Any way Smith is a great batsman for sure and let us wait and watch.. would be a great spectacle...

So you just ignored what was explained to you by multiple people (the fact that the exact tactic you mention has been tried regularly without success) and repeated your shortsighted suggestion in a lot more words?

 

[Burgey]

I thought one of the more remarkable parts of Smith’s Ashes series was how he spent the two weeks after he got concussed reworking how he ducked short balls, then successfully implemented that change in the fourth test. The bloke literally reworked his technique in a fortnight while concussed, and turned around **** knows how many years of muscle memory to make that change, came back and made a double hundred.

In a fortnight. While concussed. Like I said yesterday, unique.

 

[the big bambino]

I firmly believe that once a batsman commits early to leg side while the bowler is about to deliver the ball(as Smith does with his trigger movement) he loses a bit of balance at the crease. For instance a lot of much better balanced batsmen like Gavaskar,Sachin,Border etc would have ducked into that Jofra Archer bouncer at least with a bit of difficulty but Smith couldn't because he was trapped cramping for room because of his awkward movement and there by being off balance. In that final dismissal of his for 23 too, Broad put in a bit more effort to bang it in a bit more higher and Smith couldn't keep the ball down because of his bit of off balance due to trigger movement.

In both the above instances what actually happend was that once he committed to that trigger movement in advance , he couldn't adjust in accordance to the slightest bit of variation at the last minute from the bowler's side which other more orthodox great batsmen would have been able to handle with a bit of unease at least. This is the problem with Smith's technique as I perceive. So moving forward it would be interesting as to how rest of the word team analysts would be trying to counter him.

Any way Smith is a great batsman for sure and let us wait and watch.. would be a great spectacle...

I think Burgey has subsequently and indirectly answered your post. I agree Smith's movements made the Archer ball that struck him more dangerous than it otherwise would have been. From memory Cummins and then Siddle batted out that same Archer spell and played his short stuff very well. It gave me reason to think that maybe Smith's movements could make him vulnerable to shorter balls aimed around off stump. Couple of things: I still think the variable nature of that pitch contributed to Smith getting hit on the arm before he was eventually felled by the bouncer. (Wade also said that pitches without much bounce make it difficult for batsmen to avoid Archer's bumpers so maybe that played a part as well). I think Smith was rattled by that blow to the arm and he batted thereafter like an angry man bent on vengeance. This bravado made him more vulnerable to taking on a rapid ball he would have normally avoided if he was playing with a more level mind, imo. So you could claim that he may have avoided the bumper that hit him if wore an arm guard in the first place.

If there was any lingering weakness I think England would have subsequently exploited it. But as has been explained Smith spent the time away thinking about that delivery and you would have to say that from the success he enjoyed found an adequate solution. When you get a bloke as good as him people often read too much into a mode of dismissal and are too optimistic in delivering results. Remember when Australia found the solution to KP in the form of Doherty ..? I think the ball on the hip is worth a try against Smith. But you can see the danger in committing to a leg side line against him. And unlike the Archer ball Smith wont have to make too many adjustments to accommodate that line of attack. For the lack of any better suggestions I still think a wide off side line and patience, patience, patience is the way to tackle him.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

At this point in time, I like Steven Smith more than Virat (although he visited my country a few weeks ago and lash up some roti and curry).

 

[Spark]

Didn't Smith alter his movements against the short ball significantly at OT?

 

[Burgey]

Yeah he did. Smith.exe is a self-correcting program. He also corrects himself on the rare occasions his fidgeting gets out of hand, and consciously moves less the next innings he plays. Which is why I think this talk that his exaggerated trigger movements will cause him trouble as he ages to be misplaced. He's in line and still at point of release, and that's all that matters. Plus, I think if they start to cause him problems, he will simply stop doing them. He's that adaptable.

 

[Victor Ian]

In a team of tools, Smith is like the multitool.

 

[vcs]

Smith needs 27 runs in his next innings to reach 7000. If he gets them, he will beat Hammond's record by 5 innings.

 

[Burner]

That's my point

Sorry. Was replying to mr_mister.

 

[Victor Ian]

It's kind of weird. We are all lauding Smith's far superior brilliance, yet he is only gettting to 7000 a handful of innings quicker than the next bunch of ATG contenders. Smith is not a shade on what Bradman was like. Just merely what Hammond was like.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah because Smith is happening right now. Clearly he's not even close to Bradman

 

[mr_mister]

Smith started off as a literal bowling all rounder at 8 we must remember. It's fascinating what he's become

 

[Coronis]

It's kind of weird. We are all lauding Smith's far superior brilliance, yet he is only gettting to 7000 a handful of innings quicker than the next bunch of ATG contenders. Smith is not a shade on what Bradman was like. Just merely what Hammond was like.

In large part because Hammond had a tendency to go big. iirc has one of the highest century to double century ratios in test history.