The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Burgey]

Both lineups about right with some arguable swaps here and there.
Pujara, Laxman and Hanif are better than Saeed imho.

Yeah Hanif is often overlooked. Agree with the other two as well

 

[marc71178]

Ash/Jaddu are probably better than Saqlain by the amount Imran is better than Dev.

Nowhere near.

Imran is far far better than Dev.

Ashwin/Jadeja vs Saqlain is debatable as to who is better.

 

[Slifer]

Imagine if the partition hadn't happened:

Sunil Gavaskar
Saeed Anwar
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Javed Miandad
MS Dhoni +
Imran Khan
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Anil Kumble
Waqar Younis

A combined team:

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Javed
Dhoni+
Imran
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

I'd swap Saeed for Sehwag in away series. Still behind Australia but arguably better than the rest

 

[mr_mister]

Does Merchant not have an argument?

I know his test career was brief but he still showed in it that his ridiculous FC average was no fluke

 

[jimmy101]

Of course Merchant has an argument, he was obviously a gun. The only thing is, this forum is populated by people who disregard players from the pre-television era, or have the symptom where they refuse to regard players which played less than 20 Tests, etc. Horses for courses, I guess. Most people who post in this thread know what's up though.

 

[Slifer]

Pray tell who should be left out of a combined India Pakistan xi to make way?? Gavaskar?? No way. Sehwag, Saeed, Hanif? Maybe but how fair is that considering he only played 10 tests...

 

[harsh.ag]

Considering Sehwag's issues with swing in England, NZ and SA, Merchant, who excelled in England, would have a good argument for himself.

 

[h_hurricane]

Merchant was indeed a masterly batsman. Great peer reputation as well. Only reason he does not make it is because of his unfortunately short career.

I am more aghast at Kapil not making some combined Ind-Pak XIs. Performed well in Eng, Aus, WI and SA every time he visited there. Some great series as well. Was at his best against the very best. Insane longevity for a bowling all rounder. Only place he fared poorly was NZ.

That bowling lineup is going to get exposed in Aus or WI without him. He was comfortably among the top 2 Asian bowlers in these 2 countries.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Merchant was indeed a masterly batsman. Great peer reputation as well. Only reason he does not make it is because of his unfortunately short career.

I am more aghast at Kapil not making some combined Ind-Pak XIs. Performed well in Eng, Aus, WI and SA every time he visited there. Some great series as well. Was at his best against the very best. Insane longevity for a bowling all rounder. Only place he fared poorly was NZ.

That bowling lineup is going to get exposed in Aus or WI without him. He was comfortably among the top 2 Asian bowlers in these 2 countries.

Imran existing makes Kapil surplus to requirements.

 

[h_hurricane]

Here is the record of the top 4 asian bowlers in Aus and WI.

Kapil : 20 matches 86 wickets @ 23.99
Imran : 21 matches 93 wickets @ 26.76
Wasim : 18 matches 71 wickets @25.45
Waqar : 13 matches 38 wickets @30.60

Kapil will be indeed surplus to the requirement in Eng or NZ but was the very best in Aus or WI. The team touring Down under or Caribbean is not covered on all bases without him. Also considering that asian spinners have not done much there, the bowling lineup is going to get exposed.

 

[Slifer]

No atg will cover its bases everywhere. Your best bet is to go with the best overall players. In which case imran is already in the team so dev isnt really needed tbh. With Dev in the team, the bowling really isn't improved that much overall. With him in they'll be a batsman missing at 6 and Original india needs all the batting they could muster considering the competition.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Here is the record of the top 4 asian bowlers in Aus and WI.

Kapil : 20 matches 86 wickets @ 23.99
Imran : 21 matches 93 wickets @ 26.76
Wasim : 18 matches 71 wickets @25.45
Waqar : 13 matches 38 wickets @30.60

Kapil will be indeed surplus to the requirement in Eng or NZ but was the very best in Aus or WI. The team touring Down under or Caribbean is not covered on all bases without him. Also considering that asian spinners have not done much there, the bowling lineup is going to get exposed.

That is a stunning stat. Wouldn't have thought a predominantly swing bowler would have more impact in those conditions than the others.

 

[Teja.]

Kapil definetly raised his performances against the best but Australia was not the second best batting side of his time.

 

[trundler]

Younis probably makes it ahead of Javed in a combined team imo. Better away from home and a master player of spin.

Engineer+
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Younis
Imran
Kapil
Ashwin
Akram
Waqar

 

[OverratedSanity]

You don't need Ashwin's batting. Get chandra in there to get a spinner who can be a threat in overseas conditions.

India Pak combined xi imo:

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
Younis
Dhoni
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Akhtar
Chandra

Edit : kohli to push someone out pretty soon

 

[harsh.ag]

Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Younis
Dhoni +
Imran
Wasim
Chandra
Akhtar

 

[h_hurricane]

Younis probably makes it ahead of Javed in a combined team imo. Better away from home and a master player of spin.

Engineer+
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Younis
Imran
Kapil
Ashwin
Akram
Waqar

Great team. Dhoni vs Engineer is arguable but can totally understand it considering Farokh could open.

 

[ankitj]

Here is the record of the top 4 asian bowlers in Aus and WI.

Kapil : 20 matches 86 wickets @ 23.99
Imran : 21 matches 93 wickets @ 26.76
Wasim : 18 matches 71 wickets @25.45
Waqar : 13 matches 38 wickets @30.60

Kapil will be indeed surplus to the requirement in Eng or NZ but was the very best in Aus or WI. The team touring Down under or Caribbean is not covered on all bases without him. Also considering that asian spinners have not done much there, the bowling lineup is going to get exposed.

Sometimes I wonder how much do we expect such stats to repeat indefinitely if the players could play indefinitely. These are smaller slices of their careers and chances of anomalies is higher in smaller sets of data.

 

[h_hurricane]

Kapil definetly raised his performances against the best but Australia was not the second best batting side of his time.

The point was that Australia has been a massive graveyard for Asian bowlers. Asian spinners have got brutalized down under. Imran, Kapil and Wasim are the only bowlers with good records there for any consistent period of time. Bumrah could reach there soon if he plays like this.

 

[ankitj]

I have generally held that Indian spinners of past have been a bit glorified and thought Ashwin is better than them all. Afterall after playing exactly the same number of games as Bedi, Ashwin has taken 90 wickets more than Bedi. But I just checked and found Ashwin has no fivers in any of the SENA countries, while both Bedi and Chandra have at least one fiver each in each of WENA countries (replacing SA with WI for their time). That's quite astonishing. And it doesn't seem like it was just a function of them bowling millions of overs because India didn't have pace bowlers. They both average under 35 in each of WENA countries except Bedi in England. (For some strange reason both Bedi and Chandra have their poorest records in Pakistan). Ashwin on the other hand averages >45 in SA and Aus. There is afterall some justification for including Bedi or Chandra in ATG India XI!