England players and selection discussion thread

[wpdavid]

Bairstow was fine when he returned to the side after going away and he tightened up his game and scored a ruck of runs for Yorkshire, since he got in the one day side ahead of hales all the old flaws have returned and he seems to get bowled every other innings again. Maybe he needs to choose one or tother as both seem incompatible.

Your last point may be key. Bairstow looks a much better ODI player than test player nowadays, so maybe it's in everyone's interests if that's what he does now. of course, it's easier to say that when Buttler's just played his best innings of the series.

 

[Pothas]

Funny how you display sympathy to Bairstow and yet Buttler's upturn in form is irrelevant for you. Almost as if county bias is at play

Flibberty has always seemed to have a problem with Buttler, vaguely remember him doubting him as an ODI player at one stage.

Think we have definitely reached the stage where we have to pick one of them, or Foakes of course, to bat at 7 and keep. Bairstow has the better career record for sure but Buttler has been the better of the two since he came back in and the sort of innings he played yesterday is how you can see him working as a Test match player, it seems weird when he is picked as a specialist batsman but as a keeper batsman it is totally normal.

 

[GIMH]

Flibberty has always seemed to have a problem with Buttler, vaguely remember him doubting him as an ODI player at one stage.
.

Rings a bell now you mention it

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Ding dong

 

[marc71178]

Not sure. I'm hoping for Alec Stewart.

You want the team to be full of Surrey players then? They're hardly setting the championship alight.

 

[Classic94]

So, as it stands, what would people like to see come the Winter? My 17:

Root, Buttler, Burns, Sibley, Stokes, Crawley, Pope, Hain, Foakes, Curran, Woakes, Anderson, Broad, Archer, Stone, Leach, Parkinson

Sounds mad, but I’d also consider leaving one of Broad or Anderson at home with an eye on the future...

 

[Jack1]

Sam Curran and Denly are right in the mix now. Denly would have been stone dead done if he was caught on 0. But he wasn't. That 94 buys him time opening with Burns. Getting the balance of the side right for Sam Curran if Anderson, Broad, Archer and Leach all play becomes difficult when Stokes is already playing. Definitely a conundrum for England when they play next. Woakes is playing for his long term future in the 4th innings of the game - we'll see what he's made of. I assume Burns and Denly will get given at least 5 more tests opening together after their performance in this series. Denly's 94 was on point..I cringe when I think of how many chances Jennings got. Denly and Burns probably deserve to get given time now 5-10 tests worth.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I have a feeling Root, Stokes and Archer won’t go to New Zealand and will come back for South Africa. Anderson is anyone’s guess when or if he’ll return. I’m not convinced by Sibley, Pope or Crawley but they have to be tried.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I have a feeling Root, Stokes and Archer won’t go to New Zealand and will come back for South Africa. Anderson is anyone’s guess when or if he’ll return. I’m not convinced by Sibley, Pope or Crawley but they have to be tried.

Think you may be right there, though Stokes and Archer may go just for the tests and not play the ODI's.

With a bit of a break now they may all want to go and just play the test matches.

If Root and Stokes don't go then who captains the side?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Anyway I can't see us making wholesale changes to the side, think Buttler will remain as a bat and Bairstow as keeper which solves nothing in the long run. As long as we give Burns and Denly the winter which means both tours to cement their places I won't complain who we pick.

 

[Groundking]

I have a feeling Root, Stokes and Archer won’t go to New Zealand and will come back for South Africa. Anderson is anyone’s guess when or if he’ll return. I’m not convinced by Sibley, Pope or Crawley but they have to be tried.

Surely we can't be leaving 3 of our at a push 6 good players at home? If that need a rest just don't play them in the short form ****, it's not like we lack options for the short stuff. I'm really not convinced by Denly but he's probably booked himself a ticket and we probably do need some consistency in the order and there's only really Ollie Pope who's absolutely demanding selection and I'm a big believer that you have to reward performance in the CC and Sibley has been the best performer so must be on the plane imo. So in calling for some consistency perhaps we keep Denly opening with Burns and try Sibley at 3, he won't be the first opener we've had who spent some of his early career at 3 for us, Cook for example, so maybe a team like this?

Burns
Denly
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Curran/Woakes
Leach
Archer
Broad

I really don't want to see Bairstow stink the place out again and Anderson in for whoever's playing no.8 if he's fit, but out of the 2 I'd probably prefer Curran, he offers a bit more variety and he just makes things happen.

 

[GIMH]

What's the consensus on Ali? Finished in Tests?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

What's the consensus on Ali? Finished in Tests?

Won't get picked this winter but never say never. Doubt he will return but who knows if he regains form with bat and ball.

 

[theegyptian]

I don't know why they'd rest any of the test players tbh. First test starts 21st November. That's more than a month after this test that they can have off before they start training again. Root and Stokes are too important to the team and won't want to miss the tour.

On another note it's **** that they have had 2 two test match series with NZ within 19 months of each other. It would have been so much better to have 1 four match series.

There are 5 t20s (and no odis) before the test series in NZ which I'd guess Stokes and Root will definitely be rested from, and some others may miss. Ideally we would be preparing for the World T20s in Australia in late 2020 but we are going to have to take a somewhat threadbare squad and give some chances to squad players and rookies maybe like Matt Parkinson, Banton, Mahmood.

I'd drop one of Buttler or Bairstow from the the test squad for NZ and put the other at 7 as wk. I'd much rather give Pope the opportunity to bat at 6 over the winter. Neither Buttler or Bairstow are good enough to play as a batsman alone and bat 5. So no point taking both if one is going to sit on the bench given their workloads.

 

[Groundking]

What's the consensus on Ali? Finished in Tests?

What's the point? Even if he starts well again when coming back into the team it only takes him 6 months to **** the bed again and get dropped, would rather just stick with Leach.

I don't know why they'd rest any of the test players tbh. First test starts 21st November. That's more than a month after this test that they can have off before they start training again. Root and Stokes are too important to the team and won't want to miss the tour.

On another note it's **** that they have had 2 two test match series with NZ within 19 months of each other. It would have been so much better to have 1 four match series.

There are 5 t20s (and no odis) before the test series in NZ which I'd guess Stokes and Root will definitely be rested from, and some others may miss. Ideally we would be preparing for the World T20s in Australia in late 2020 but we are going to have to take a somewhat threadbare squad and give some chances to squad players and rookies maybe like Matt Parkinson, Banton, Mahmood.

I'd drop one of Buttler or Bairstow from the the test squad for NZ and put the other at 7 as wk. I'd much rather give Pope the opportunity to bat at 6 over the winter. Neither Buttler or Bairstow are good enough to play as a batsman alone and bat 5. So no point taking both if one is going to sit on the bench given their workloads.

I agree with this, I've got the feeling that they're gonna be dumb though and have Pope batting at 4 with Root at 3, which is just not what the team or either of them needs.

 

[Bijed]

Moeen may well still be our go-to second spinner when conditions allow, I'd have thought

 

[ImpatientLime]

should still be number one choice at home

 

[theegyptian]

I agree with this, I've got the feeling that they're gonna be dumb though and have Pope batting at 4 with Root at 3, which is just not what the team or either of them needs.

I'd be gutted if that happened. He needs to bat 6 (or maybe 5 at a push). They've gotta give young players the best chance of succeeding. Put him at 4 and he's probably going to fail and the team's probably going to fail too with a flimsy top order.

I watched a reasonable amount of the Surrey Hampshire game this past week on youtube when Pope was batting to gauge how his batting his coming along. He's obviously a big talent. There's very little margin for error for the bowlers as he scores all around the wicket and is very clinical when the ball is straight. Strong against spin too imo getting with decisive footwork back and forward. He's still pretty loose when it's a good length outside offstump though against seam. Kyle Abbott was just working away at him on about fifth stump and he did seem to get bored just defending or leaving it after a while and fenced at the ball to try and get it way through the offside when it wasn't really there for it. He definitely would have struggled against Cummins and Hazlewood this summer if he played.

He's not finished article but he's the best talent we have by a long way. Initially we're probably going to find he's a bit too loose outside the offstump and needs to tighten up against quality bowling but that's why he should start at number 6 where he is protected from the best of the bowling. He's averaging 60 in fc cricket right now so there's not a whole lot more for him to really gain from playing more seasons of county cricket. Buttler and Bairstow have been protected at 6 and 7 to the detriment of new players like Pope and Roy, which would be understandable if they were producing good results but they've been average to poor. Time to protect Pope imo.

He's meant to be an excellent fielder too at gully so that's another positive.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Moeen may well still be our go-to second spinner when conditions allow, I'd have thought

He'll have to be a lot better than what he's shown lately for that to be the case.

 

[theegyptian]

Moeen will be back imo. It's just hard playing all formats, especially as an allrounder. That's 3 batting styles, and 3 bowling styles required. Very hard to go between formats continously. His role in the test side changing continously due to the batting issues of the team.

Him and Leach took 18 wickets a piece last winter when we won 3-0 in Sri Lanka. He'll be back there at the start of the next year when we tour in all probability. Might not go to NZ for the tests, but I'd take probably him along to SA, and definitely to Sri Lanka.

Need to use the resources smartly this winter. 3 test tours (with ODI/t20s) across the winter off the back of a massive summer. All players will have to miss some cricket at some point imo. Got to try and avoid taking multiformat players and then leaving them on the bench. If they aren't going to play they may as well stay at home and keep them fresh for other formats and tours.