4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

[stephen]

Reading through this thread I missed out on some tense cricket, which I don't mind too much since I had my fill of that already this winter.

So pumped though to know that this is the best series we've had in England for 18 years.

Smith is superhuman but our bowling attack is very strong. Can't really seem to wrap sides up though so I'm glad we got there last night.

 

[morgieb]

This is what happens when you don't pick Sam The Man Curran

Overton survived 100 balls though and Buttler was pretty damn good this Test. Even Roy got two starts.

 

[morgieb]

Had to go to bed at tea (would've wanted to stay up but I've been up since 6:30 and had been drinking since about 12:45). Tense last session it seems, England batted pretty damn well today but as I suspected the brace on Day 4 killed them (I think had one of Root/Burns survived England probably draw, mostly because it's easier to see them survive 150 balls than the rest of the lineup).

This Australian attack is just relentless. I've seen it a lot at home, but other than 2013 (and even then Harris didn't have that much support IIRC) it often hasn't been the case in England. Don't think it's a coincidence that the one Test we lost was because there were a couple of patches of expensive bowling, which really wasn't the case in the other Tests (apart from England going for the declaration at Lord's)

Amazed Paine had the Labuschagne move in him. Only a couple of other captains would've had the balls to do it (i.e. Michael Clarke)

Anyway very happy we've retained the Ashes in England for once. 2-2 will look less good, but ehhh, I'll take it after 18 years!

 

[aussie tragic]

Bring Labuschagne on. The guy has been bowling as main spinner in county cricket all year and Paine has hardly bowled him.

Glad Paine finally listened to me. The bowling change that won the test

 

[TheJediBrah]

Definitely the right result, it of a relief really. Rain costing Australia yet another Ashes series in England would have been just so unjust.

Now they really need to make sure it stays a series win and not a draw, and not lose at the Oval. They've retained the Ashes but it would be a bit hollow if they don't come away with a series win.

 

[Bahnz]

TBF, rain saved Australia at Lords.

 

[stephen]

TBF, rain saved Australia at Lords.

There have been multiple times in this series where Australia have let the foot off the throat. They definitely don't have the killer instinct of Waugh's side, despite being a decent test side. In the same situation Waugh's side would be 3-0 up right now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There have been multiple times in this series where Australia have let the foot off the throat. They definitely don't have the killer instinct of Waugh's side, despite being a decent test side. In the same situation Waugh's side would be 3-0 up right now.

This side would be up 3-0 right now if Smith didn't miss a game and a half. Probably 4-0 actually.

 

[stephen]

This side would be up 3-0 right now if Smith didn't miss a game and a half. Probably 4-0 actually.

But that's my point. Waugh's team would never rely on others to do the work, they'd step up.

 

[the big bambino]

Hmm ok, I'm going to need a neutral to tell me I'm not making any sense before I register that I'm not making sense.

.

I'm not a neutral but the point is Warner (and the others) received a penalty way in excess of what the game stipulates.

 

[Burgey]

TBF, rain saved Australia at Lords.

Not really. You’re assuming Paine wins the toss and bowls in a five day contest. He wouldn’t have.

But that's my point. Waugh's team would never rely on others to do the work, they'd step up.

True to an extent, but look at 2001 when Waugh missed the fourth test and they let Mark Butcher of all people carve out 170 odd on day five to beat them

 

[CricAddict]

I will bring in Sam Curran for Overton and Foakes for Bairstow. Buttler and Roy have to be replaced as well.

 

[Woodster]

Fair play to Australia for wrapping up this Test and retaining the Ashes. We had a couple of opportunities in this Test to grasp hold of the game but weren’t capable of doing so.

Smith has been incredible, obviously, but so too has the pace attack. Relentless and not offering this generally fragile England batting line-up any respite. We’ve failed in the main objective but can still hopefully get out of the series with a 2-2 draw.

 

[Burgey]

I will bring in Sam Curran for Overton and Foakes for Bairstow. Buttler and Roy have to be replaced as well.

If Stokes can't bowl, will they keep Overton, who I thought was decent tbh, and replace one of the dud middle order players with Curran, who seems capable enough as an allrounder? That way they get five bowlers, and Stokes is certainly good enough to play only as a bowler.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Good display of spine from Australia to recover from a loss like headingley. Many sides would have crumbled. Having some new faces come in for this test might have helped.

 

[Woodster]

If Stokes can't bowl, will they keep Overton, who I thought was decent tbh, and replace one of the dud middle order players with Curran, who seems capable enough as an allrounder? That way they get five bowlers, and Stokes is certainly good enough to play only as a bowler.

Maybe I'm in a minority with England fans when it comes to Sam Curran, but I don't really get all the hype and I know there's better judges of cricketers than me that really rate him. He has already shown he's got the right temperament and has played some vital knocks with the bat down the order, but at this stage neither discipline seems good enough for Test cricket.

I appreciate being so inexperienced at the highest level he isn't going to be the finished article and maybe he's worth persevering with, but I think if it's swinging he can be a threat but if it doesn't it renders him completely innocuous, maybe his batting will develop into his stronger suit.

 

[morgieb]

Maybe I'm in a minority with England fans when it comes to Sam Curran, but I don't really get all the hype and I know there's better judges of cricketers than me that really rate him. He has already shown he's got the right temperament and has played some vital knocks with the bat down the order, but at this stage neither discipline seems good enough for Test cricket.

I appreciate being so inexperienced at the highest level he isn't going to be the finished article and maybe he's worth persevering with, but I think if it's swinging he can be a threat but if it doesn't it renders him completely innocuous, maybe his batting will develop into his stronger suit.

Funnily enough I think the ones that really talk him up are non-English fans (especially Indians). Which is probably down to him being the key factor in winning two Tests they were in a shitload of trouble in in that Indian series.

I agree that at this point Curran's a bit of a no-rounder at Test level, at least on surfaces that aren't too seam-friendly. I think he'd struggle to bat Top 6 and his bowling seems ineffective if it's not hooping. I think if Stokes isn't able to bowl picking him at 7 would make sense, but with a fit Stokes he seems superflouous as there are better bowlers and his batting seems over-rated at this point.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah Curran’s misfortune is that Stokes exists, basically. Would be tempting to play him instead of Overton though. He might do something ***y with the ball like how he got Pujara and Kohli in an over or something iirc. Batting is a plus as well ofc.

Don’t really have any strong preference between Woakes/Overton/Curran tbh.

 

[91Jmay]

Congrats to Aus, have been better team for most of the series and deserve to be up.

Retaining the Ashes is meaningless though, winning it only counts so still all to play for.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Overton was decent and showed some real fight with the bat. I wouldn't be dropping him just yet.

btw I wonder if anyone would have picked Chris Woakes to get dropped from the team half way through the series