Shane Watson vs Andrew Symonds (ODIs)

[Flem274*]

Looking forward to adam voges being put in all time sides by one eyed australians in 15 years time

 

[TheJediBrah]

Looking forward to adam voges being put in all time sides by one eyed australians in 15 years time

Have you taken over from zinzan as the resident little kiwi triggered by anything Aussie? You've been hitting it pretty hard

 

[vcs]

Wasn't really dropped because of form. Mostly behavioural issues IIRC. Like he refused to show up for compulsory trainings. He sort of just faded away, it was a bit sad.



haha he reckons he should have been out 4 times during the innings

also monkey-gate series, and pretty sure the same one where the Indians threatened to go home unless the match referee was fired because he caught Sachin ball-tampering. Good times.

Steyn exposed him pretty brutally in that last series, didn't he? Though it was Steyn, in his defense..

 

[TheJediBrah]

Steyn exposed him pretty brutally in that last series, didn't he? Though it was Steyn, in his defense..

I don't remember at all. That was his last series but just checking the scorecards (not a great measure I know) Steyn only got him out once in the 4 innings, and 2 of his dismissals were getting himself out to the spinner. He made 57, 37, 27 and 0 for the series, and he was coming off a strong series in WI and before that was monkeygate series. Definitely wouldn't have been dropped for form.

 

[Flem274*]

Have you taken over from zinzan as the resident little kiwi triggered by anything Aussie? You've been hitting it pretty hard

Eh? Im the only one with perspective in this thread. If you're hoping to reframe eye rolling as being the local campus blue haired sjw screaming at the top of her lungs then you do you.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Eh? Im the only one with perspective in this thread. If you're hoping to reframe eye rolling as being the local campus blue haired sjw screaming at the top of her lungs then you do you.

eye rolling can be a form of being triggered

also food for thought: Maybe al lot of these "one-eyed Australians" just seem that way to you because you're too far the other way and reasonable opinions seem extreme in comparison to your own biased opinion. Worth considering.

 

[Flem274*]

Nah pretty sure 'symonds makes a world atg xi' is just a terrible opinion tbh. Youre all getting as bad as those guzzler indian commentators.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah it's a very sensible opinion. You just have a massive chip on your shoulder with Australians for some reason. It's pretty much all you post about these days.

 

[CricAddict]

Yeah, Symonds is quite close to the ATG XI at No 6 spot, one obviously due to his achievements and the other, due to lack of other strong options at that position. I don't think there are many ODI stars who bloomed at 6.

 

[stephen]

I can understand a kiwi not rating Symonds. New Zealand was his second worst country to play in after Australia.

 

[vcs]

I don't remember at all. That was his last series but just checking the scorecards (not a great measure I know) Steyn only got him out once in the 4 innings, and 2 of his dismissals were getting himself out to the spinner. He made 57, 37, 27 and 0 for the series, and he was coming off a strong series in WI and before that was monkeygate series. Definitely wouldn't have been dropped for form.

Yeah, that doesn't sound too bad TBF. I just remember him nicking off to Steyn in the 2nd innings at Melbourne with the match in the balance, that was pretty much the point where I'd say SA sealed the series.

 

[Flem274*]

i love australian players and only read your posts about australia

i know

 

[morgieb]

this is false

never got a chance to see him on an English greentop but he never seemed to have too much trouble adapting to Test cricket during his short period established in the side

He would've struggled to average 30 if the DRS existed in his time tbf.

 

[vcs]

He would've struggled to average 30 if the DRS existed in his time tbf.

Haha yes. I remember him being lucky in his century against England in Melbourne as well. Or was it Hayden? They had a massive partnership and the umpires refused to give LBWs IIRC.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He would've struggled to average 30 if the DRS existed in his time tbf.

morgieb doing his best impression of the ICC pandering to the BCCI by pandering to the Indian posters with this comment

Symonds copped a lot of **** decisions. Biggest one that sticks in my mind was his debut against SL in 2004. I was so excited to see him finally get a chance in the Test team and he got fired out caught at short leg for a duck to a ball he missed by a foot.

 

[cnerd123]

Symonds is in the mix for my ODI ATG XI but far from a lock.

Very few players have a long successful career at 5/6/7, and Symonds did the job in a tough era for batsmen

Great fielder too and his bowling is useful even in an ATG context, just depends on if you're playing in the era of 1 ball and 5 men out in the deep during the middle overs, or 2 balls and 4 men out. Modern rulesets favour a 'proper' bowler but Symonds is fine for old school ODIs.

Watto finds it tougher to break into ODI ATG due to how many great ODI opening batsmen options there are. Like, does he even make Australia's ODI ATG XI? Meanwhile Symonds is probably a lock isn't he?

 

[Bolo]

Symonds is in the mix for my ODI ATG XI but far from a lock.

Very few players have a long successful career at 5/6/7, and Symonds did the job in a tough era for batsmen

Great fielder too and his bowling is useful even in an ATG context, just depends on if you're playing in the era of 1 ball and 5 men out in the deep during the middle overs, or 2 balls and 4 men out. Modern rulesets favour a 'proper' bowler but Symonds is fine for old school ODIs.

Watto finds it tougher to break into ODI ATG due to how many great ODI opening batsmen options there are. Like, does he even make Australia's ODI ATG XI? Meanwhile Symonds is probably a lock isn't he?

*Insert necessary statement about how this this comment, like your face, is rubbish*

Symonds' bowling was trash. He would get absolutely crushed in an atg game. He went at over 5 an over in a low scoring era, bowling only the middle overs (slow accumulation era in middle overs) when there were other 5th (and 6th) options in the team. I.E when he was taken off when he was getting stick.

He'd be going at 7 an over in current era vs atg bats. At least.

If you want to claim his batting (plus fielding) was good enough to get him into an atg side, fine. But I'm not even sure he gets into an aus side. Ponting, Bevan, Jones, G Chap, Hussey are pretty formidable middle order competition. Especially the last three, in a CW context, cos they get nowhere near the credit the deserve.

I'm still ok if people want to put him into even an world atg side, but not cos of his bowling.

But this whole thread can **** right off when we are factoring bowling in. Twatto* was a proper bowler, although we do need to make allowances for the fact that he was a fragile snowflake. But I'd rather have Twatto bowling only 6 or so overs a match cos he was injured than Symonds bowling 4 or 5 a match cos he simply wasn't good enough.

*reference to twatto intentionally included for the sake of TJBs suggestion that there is an anti symonds agenda on the go. Symonds was cool. One of the few Aus cricketers from the waugh era I liked. Not a genuinely nice guy like gilly or hussey, but definitely likeable (in a flintoff way). Twatto's moniker was apt. Always seemed like a bit of a ****. Cant stand the guy, but im probably picking him in a world xi.

 

[trundler]

*Insert necessary statement about how this this comment, like your face, is rubbish*

Symonds' bowling was trash. He would get absolutely crushed in an atg game. He went at over 5 an over in a low scoring era, bowling only the middle overs (slow accumulation era in middle overs) when there were other 5th (and 6th) options in the team. I.E when he was taken off when he was getting stick.

He'd be going at 7 an over in current era vs atg bats. At least.

If you want to claim his batting (plus fielding) was good enough to get him into an atg side, fine. But I'm not even sure he gets into an aus side. Ponting, Bevan, Jones, G Chap, Hussey are pretty formidable middle order competition. Especially the last three, in a CW context, cos they get nowhere near the credit the deserve.

I'm still ok if people want to put him into even an world atg side, but not cos of his bowling.

But this whole thread can **** right off when we are factoring bowling in. Twatto* was a proper bowler, although we do need to make allowances for the fact that he was a fragile snowflake. But I'd rather have Twatto bowling only 6 or so overs a match cos he was injured than Symonds bowling 4 or 5 a match cos he simply wasn't good enough.

*reference to twatto intentionally included for the sake of TJBs suggestion that there is an anti symonds agenda on the go. Symonds was cool. One of the few Aus cricketers from the waugh era I liked. Not a genuinely nice guy like gilly or hussey, but definitely likeable (in a flintoff way). Twatto's moniker was apt. Always seemed like a bit of a ****. Cant stand the guy, but im probably picking him in a world xi.

This is a good post on so many levels

 

[h_hurricane]

***** always gets his face right, Not sure why it is not so obvious.

 

[Red]

*Insert necessary statement about how this this comment, like your face, is rubbish*

Symonds' bowling was trash. He would get absolutely crushed in an atg game. He went at over 5 an over in a low scoring era, bowling only the middle overs (slow accumulation era in middle overs) when there were other 5th (and 6th) options in the team. I.E when he was taken off when he was getting stick.

He'd be going at 7 an over in current era vs atg bats. At least.

If you want to claim his batting (plus fielding) was good enough to get him into an atg side, fine. But I'm not even sure he gets into an aus side. Ponting, Bevan, Jones, G Chap, Hussey are pretty formidable middle order competition. Especially the last three, in a CW context, cos they get nowhere near the credit the deserve.

I'm still ok if people want to put him into even an world atg side, but not cos of his bowling.

But this whole thread can **** right off when we are factoring bowling in. Twatto* was a proper bowler, although we do need to make allowances for the fact that he was a fragile snowflake. But I'd rather have Twatto bowling only 6 or so overs a match cos he was injured than Symonds bowling 4 or 5 a match cos he simply wasn't good enough.

*reference to twatto intentionally included for the sake of TJBs suggestion that there is an anti symonds agenda on the go. Symonds was cool. One of the few Aus cricketers from the waugh era I liked. Not a genuinely nice guy like gilly or hussey, but definitely likeable (in a flintoff way). Twatto's moniker was apt. Always seemed like a bit of a ****. Cant stand the guy, but im probably picking him in a world xi.

I dont think one single person who is advocating for Symonds has said anything about his bowling being anything more than a bit of a bonus in this context, have they?

But fwiw, Symonds bowling was hardly a disgrace. His ER was the same as Watto's (without delving too deep into when they bowled etc), and was pretty comparable with plenty of bowlers in his era:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=31+Dec+2009;spanmin1=01+Jan+1998;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

I also can't remember a time when his bowling was really taken apart or cost the team in any way, if you can find many let me know:

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com