2nd Test, Lord's, London

[Sportsrahi]

After such a poor performance, Moeen Ali Dropped by ECB and now Jofra Archer will take on. Lets see if Jofra Archer can lead England to first win of Ashes 2019. Mitchell starc also included in 12th man squad.

 

[aussie tragic]

On the plus side, never thought I'd see the day when Aus selectors actually had to make decisions like this because we had so many fit bowlers

Wait until Jhye Richardson is flown in to play the 2nd tour game before 4th test (to rest 4 of the main pacers)....then we'll have a selection headache

 

[Burgey]

Can’t ever recall Australia having so much fast bowling depth in my entire time watching cricket.

 

[aussie tragic]

Yeah, after WSC was supposed to be special with Lillee, Thommo, Pascoe, Hogg, Walker but never happened.

 

[Burgey]

I recall in 82/83 Lillee and Alderman both got injured and they had Lawson, Thommo and iirc a young Rackemann around to fill the breach, but nothing like this lot. To have five genuine test standard seamers at one time is probably a first for us since the early 50s. - Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Davo- and tbh I can’t think of a fifth to compare and am not even sure Bill Johnston played on into the 50s when Davo started, and I cbf looking it up

 

[morgieb]

Pretty hard justifying Starc over Siddle, tbf. Siddle being an «overs-eater» and keeps things relatively tight. Starc is the exact opposite.



Did the Australian team ever genuinely apply a RoPo in Tests, though? (Aside against South Africa in Perth in 2013, and that was more or less out of necessity)

Didn't Starc get rested a match after a match-winning spell because of rotation?

 

[morgieb]

I recall in 82/83 Lillee and Alderman both got injured and they had Lawson, Thommo and iirc a young Rackemann around to fill the breach, but nothing like this lot. To have five genuine test standard seamers at one time is probably a first for us since the early 50s. - Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Davo- and tbh I can’t think of a fifth to compare and am not even sure Bill Johnston played on into the 50s when Davo started, and I cbf looking it up

There was an overlap between Johnston and Davidson (former retired in 1955, latter debuted in 1953). Of course Davidson didn't peak until Johnston and Miller had both retired and Lindwall was in his late 30's.

 

[morgieb]

There was a period where we could potentially pick all of the current 5 + Johnson and Harris, though I think at least a couple of them weren't properly fit when the options were given.

 

[Starfighter]

I recall in 82/83 Lillee and Alderman both got injured and they had Lawson, Thommo and iirc a young Rackemann around to fill the breach, but nothing like this lot. To have five genuine test standard seamers at one time is probably a first for us since the early 50s. - Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, Davo- and tbh I can’t think of a fifth to compare and am not even sure Bill Johnston played on into the 50s when Davo started, and I cbf looking it up

fwiw Johnston played on to '55 but wrecked his knee in '53 and lost effectiveness, Davidson started in '53 but didn't break out until '57 (I think not coincidentally after Ian Johnson retired). Archer debuted in '53 and went until his career ending injury in '56 (also likely another factor that allowed Davidson to rise). I think it's a case of good on paper but the bowlers either had peaked or had yet to peak. We also had Geff Noblet, who averaged 19 domestically, I think he was a Chadd Sayers type though, and Alan Walker, a skiddy left armer who went to SA in '49/50 but never played a test.
All-in-all I reckon we could have rustled up a decent five then but I reckon the current potential five might actually be stronger, especially when you consider that Miller's back stopped him ever really taking on a full workload.

 

[aussie tragic]

Still think 80 was stronger with Lillee, Thommo, Pascoe, Hogg, Walker and then Dymock and Alderman came in when the top guns faltered.

 

[aussie tragic]

Stronger than the 50's I mean...agree that Cummins, Starc, Pattinson, Hazlewood, Richardson, Siddle is the greatest 6 ever

 

[Burgey]

Still think 80 was stronger with Lillee, Thommo, Pascoe, Hogg, Walker and then Dymock and Alderman came in when the top guns faltered.

Maybe, thought thommo was last his best even by then and Pascoe was very inconsistent. As was Hogg, come to that. Never fulfilled his potential did he? Mad bastard

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dunno if they were all available at the same time, but the mid/late 90s options were very solid on paper at least, weren't they? McGrath, Fleming, Dizzy, Reiffel, Kasper and (at a pinch) Bichel.

 

[aussie tragic]

With 23 hours to go, looking forward to some Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood magic in first session....

...or Warner, Khawaja, Smith if batting

Archer to be very flat

 

[Uppercut]

Really looking forward to seeing Archer bowl. Never know exactly how someone will go in tests but there haven’t been many debutants you’d sooner bet on. He looks pretty great.

 

[aussie tragic]

Yep first 4 overs should be great, next 6 should be ok, after that it will be wtf, you want me to bowl more than 10 in a game?

 

[stephen]

Really strange dropping Pattinson but it's not like we're replacing him with a terrible bowler. Pretty much every one of the big 4 deserves to play.

 

[theegyptian]

He might not have bowled much in 4 day cricket for a while but one of the best things about Archer in his first year or two of county cricket was his ability to bowl 20+ overs in a day at good pace. It was a fairly common occurence for Archer to bowl say 23 or 24 overs in a day, with the next seamer bowling 15 or 16.

2017 county averages - Specsavers County Championship Division Two, 2017 Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com
Archer bowled 475 overs in the season. More than anyone else in div 2 that year. And that was his first full season in county cricket. Only played his first first class game the previous July. And that from a guy bowling mid 80s mph.

Archer will be useful at home for England in test cricket but away from home his value to the side will hopefully be massive. England have lots of guys who could average less than 30 in home conditions. Away from home we don't really have any. Hopefully Archer will provide this. Could perform either role tbh - workhorse style 20+ overs a day at mid 80s mph, or the enforcer bowling short hostile spells.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling
England bowlers with 30 or more test wickets this century away from home. No-one with an average under 30. Think Archer will break that.

 

[wpdavid]

Dunno if they were all available at the same time, but the mid/late 90s options were very solid on paper at least, weren't they? McGrath, Fleming, Dizzy, Reiffel, Kasper and (at a pinch) Bichel.

Move on to late 1990's / early 2000's and Brett Lee comes into the mix at the expense of Reiffel.

 

[greg]

i’m afraid I think tomorrow’s weather forecast is quite possibly the worst i’ve ever seen prior to a day i’m due to go to a Test Match. Almost a case of thinking it’s not worth the train fare.