Where does Dale Steyn stack up historically

[marc71178]

Yeah, they well and truly accord with my own as well.

I've era adjusted them on my spreadsheet and found that neither are as good as Kapil Dev

 

[Malcolm]

Why does everyone have secret spreadsheets? I trust that you've added it up right but I'm sure you're not actually going through the ball by ball commentary to do that, you're getting the raw-ish data from somewhere. Someone put up a link to it ffs.

View attachment steyn.xlsx

 

[vcs]

Well then is there any other statistical exercise to determine their performances against the best batsmen of their time? I've personally watched them both for most of their careers and felt McGrath had a definite stronghold over most of the great batsmen of his time may it be Lara, Tendulkar, Dravid, Sangakkara, KP certinally lot more than Steyn. As mentioned, i'd like to see a statistical measure on this that goes beyond just scratching the surface

Fake news lol, McGrath never got him in a Test. They only played two Tests against each other.

 

[MrPrez]

So which discussion should we have...

Because of Warne there was less wickets available to McGrath or because Boje was so poor it was easier for the batsmen to see off Steyn under less pressure? Or because Steyn was the best attacking option for SA he was always attacking throughout the day, hence his higher S/R but more runs conceded. Or should we talk about the use of bowlers within the team where McGrath was used as less of strike bowler at times because of the availability of Warne in certain conditions. Or shall we discuss the relevant batting strengths of the teams and the ability of runs on the board to create pressure. Or maybe the fact that pitch conditions changed between McGrath era to Steyn era. Or the quality of the batsmen in general?

What other arbitrary details can we create to decide that this exceptional player was better than this other exceptional player?

I wasn't saying we should actually use it in this comparison, just that it was an interesting thought experiment ffs.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There's nothing new going on here. The Cricket Web statisticians have always just chucked all the data in a spreadsheet and played around with different formulas until their favourite comes out on top. The Warne/Murali thread has had songs written about it.

 

[OverratedSanity]

View attachment 24848

Interesting. Thanks for that.

 

[ankitj]

Interesting. Thanks for that.

I like Daemon's spreadsheet better tbf.

 

[h_hurricane]

wickets per match? ew. List is close to what you'd probably expect though.

Why do you think wickets per match is irrelevant ? To qoute an example, Miller taking 3 wickets per match at 23 is not as impactful as Lillee taking 5 wickets per match at 24.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah it might be this, sorry guys.

I’ll rework the cricmetrics data again, must’ve erred somewhere.

Yeah it was an error, my bad.

Averages against highest averaging batsman in the team (from 1998)

Steyn: 29.53
McGrath: 34.22

 

[Gob]

Fake news lol, McGrath never got him in a Test. They only played two Tests against each other.

I swear he got him out with a full toss in one of those off season tests back in 2004

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

So which discussion should we have...

Because of Warne there was less wickets available to McGrath or because Boje was so poor it was easier for the batsmen to see off Steyn under less pressure? Or because Steyn was the best attacking option for SA he was always attacking throughout the day, hence his higher S/R but more runs conceded. Or should we talk about the use of bowlers within the team where McGrath was used as less of strike bowler at times because of the availability of Warne in certain conditions. Or shall we discuss the relevant batting strengths of the teams and the ability of runs on the board to create pressure. Or maybe the fact that pitch conditions changed between McGrath era to Steyn era. Or the quality of the batsmen in general?

What other arbitrary details can we create to decide that this exceptional player was better than this other exceptional player?

I used odi stats . ( Same with Hadlee Vs Marshall )

 

[stephen]

Lots of pointless statistical hair splitting going on here.

McGrath was the best line and length merchant I've ever seen. He could land it in the same spot every ball and do something slightly different with it.

Steyn was the best swing bowler since at least Akram and better than Akram in non swinging conditions.

McGrath was great to watch in a sadistic way - he was going to destroy his opponent's batting line-up ruthlessly and efficiently.

Steyn was great to watch for his sheer excitement factor. He would do things with the ball that no-one else would do. And one felt he was more likely to go berserk and get a huge haul on a dead pitch.

Picking an ATG team there would be reasons to include both. Both were the preeminent bowlers of their generation. Both had a different MO. Facing both in the same side would have been an absolute nightmare - McGrath's bowling would test you in a different way to Steyn.

It's nigh on impossible to split them, as someone who followed both of their careers.

 

[trundler]

Dammit, where's the Stephen v Stephen all out brawl I ordered

 

[TheJediBrah]

So which discussion should we have...

Because of Warne there was less wickets available to McGrath or because Boje was so poor it was easier for the batsmen to see off Steyn under less pressure? Or because Steyn was the best attacking option for SA he was always attacking throughout the day, hence his higher S/R but more runs conceded. Or should we talk about the use of bowlers within the team where McGrath was used as less of strike bowler at times because of the availability of Warne in certain conditions. Or shall we discuss the relevant batting strengths of the teams and the ability of runs on the board to create pressure. Or maybe the fact that pitch conditions changed between McGrath era to Steyn era. Or the quality of the batsmen in general?

What other arbitrary details can we create to decide that this exceptional player was better than this other exceptional player?

tbh I think all of these factors are pretty negligible in a practical setting. The whole "benefits from a stronger attack around them" makes sense thinking logically, but I doubt it would have much, if any, influence on their statistical results.

Bit of a silly point when comparing Steyn and McGrath anyway. It's not like Steyn was bowling alongside complete nuffies. He had Philander, Morkel, Ntini etc. Generally speaking South Africa had a bloody strong attack during Steyn's career.

 

[Victor Ian]

I'd imagine bowling with a strong attack only benefits the lesser ranked bowlers. When you are the clear best bowler in your team you are the one batsmen will see off, regardless of how good the others are.

If you had McGrath and Steyn both in your team and only one gets the new ball (let's assume Marshall is in there too) who gets it?

 

[stephen]

I'd imagine bowling with a strong attack only benefits the lesser ranked bowlers. When you are the clear best bowler in your team you are the one batsmen will see off, regardless of how good the others are.

If you had McGrath and Steyn both in your team and only one gets the new ball (let's assume Marshall is in there too) who gets it?

McGrath.

 

[stephen]

I would assume that Steyn is going to be the more potent change bowler of the two given his pace advantage.

 

[smash84]

I'd imagine bowling with a strong attack only benefits the lesser ranked bowlers. When you are the clear best bowler in your team you are the one batsmen will see off, regardless of how good the others are.

If you had McGrath and Steyn both in your team and only one gets the new ball (let's assume Marshall is in there too) who gets it?

I reckon McGrath wouldn't be as effective with the old ball so he might as well do what he does best and take the new cherry.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah that's not a hard one to answer. Could depend on who's batting in the opposition though.

 

[Logan]

McGrath is almost impossible to score runs off. Steyn is the greatest wicket taker in history. With McGrath and Steyn bowling in tandem, batsmen will forced to attack either one of them resulting in them losing their wickets.