India Top Two ODI batsmen

[Daemon]

Trundler is literally a child, you’re like twice his age. Behave yourself.

 

[mr_mister]

Trundler is literally a child, you’re like twice his age. Behave yourself.

Lol what is this. This is more insulting to trundler than a defense of him

 

[cnerd123]

Lol what is this. This is more insulting to trundler than a defense of him

it's also true tbf

 

[trundler]

Yes, it's that easy to bait Stephen

 

[cnerd123]

In Stephen's defence, if any thread is going to get derailed to talk smack about Tendulkar, it would be a thread called 'India Top Two ODI batsmen'

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Yeah right, comparing the stats of a bloke with 20 years experience to a newbie trying to break into the team and barely in his 20s.

I prefer players to be in their 20s than in late 30s.

 

[h_hurricane]

That depends entirely on the circumstances of those runs.

I'm glad you brought up strike rates. Bevan had a strike rate of 80 in the first innings over the course of his career. It's only in the second innings that his strike rate drops significantly. And do you know why his strike rate drops? Because he's pacing his innings to win games. And 75 (his overall strike rate) was considered perfectly fine in the era.

And you know what, I went back and ran the query again, except to the end of 99 instead of 00 and Bevan's average was over 60. I wasn't cherry picking at all. So there was a six year period where his average was higher than Tendulkar's strike rate advantage.

Bevan played in more challenging conditions against generally more challenging attacks in the 90s than Tendulkar. He won games for a pretty ordinary batting side against top bowling attacks on many occasions. He invented a new role in the sport.

Tendulkar scored a little bit faster than his opening partner.

Overall Tendulkar had a better career, but Bevan was the best batsman of the 90s by a furlong.

This perception of Bevan batting at the right pace required for winning a match while chasing is twisted and does not tell the full story. Below are the batting averages and strike rates of leading Aussie batsmen between 1994 and 2000 while chasing.

Adam Gilchrist 36.68 89.63
Steve Waugh 43.31 76.75
Mark Waugh 35.47 71.52
Ricky Ponting 39.82 68.36
Michael Bevan 53.97 66.14

Quite clearly others around him batted more aggressively and brought down the required rate to such an extent that all he needed was to stay put at one end and finish the match with a few balls to spare. And lol if you think this batting lineup was ordinary. He had the worst strike rate batting second among all of them. Even a young Ponting who was still figuring out how to settle into the team was better than the "best batsman of the decade" in that measure.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Opening - 49 at 87
Number3- 83 at 100
Number4 -57 at 93
Number5 -50 at 86
Number6- 47 at 83
Number7 -45 at 96

Dhoni - Most versatile Batsman ever ??

 

[h_hurricane]

Opening - 49 at 87
Number3- 83 at 100
Number4 -57 at 93
Number5 -50 at 86
Number6- 47 at 83
Number7 -45 at 96

Dhoni - Most versatile Batsman ever ??

In fact he is the most annoying batsman ever. Learned the irritating skill of "taking the game deep" from Bevan when he could have finished it 5 overs earlier and still messed up many chases.

 

[stephen]

So these are batting second stats? How many loses did Australia have batting second that can be attributed to Bevan's strike rate?

The other thing you ignore is that Gilchrist only played for the last couple of years, for most of the 90s Australia's best batsmen were Bevan and the Waugh brothers.

So basically you're arguing that Bevan's second innings strike rate was insufficient because other batsmen struck faster than him (but at a way lower average).

You're also ignoring how well Bevan batted with the tail. It was phenomenal. He always got Australia over the line. Dhoni and Hussey are the only two guys who have similar records and Bevan was better than both.

This is why stats always require context.

 

[stephen]

In fact he is the most annoying batsman ever. Learned the irritating skill of "taking the game deep" from Bevan when he could have finished it 5 overs earlier and still messed up many chases.

Dhoni didn't reality start screwing up chases until after the last world's cup though. He's a champion who's run a few too many races and needs to be put out to stud.

 

[h_hurricane]

So these are batting second stats? How many loses did Australia have batting second that can be attributed to Bevan's strike rate?

The other thing you ignore is that Gilchrist only played for the last couple of years, for most of the 90s Australia's best batsmen were Bevan and the Waugh brothers.

So basically you're arguing that Bevan's second innings strike rate was insufficient because other batsmen struck faster than him (but at a way lower average).

You're also ignoring how well Bevan batted with the tail. It was phenomenal. He always got Australia over the line. Dhoni and Hussey are the only two guys who have similar records and Bevan was better than both.

This is why stats always require context.

Yes, these are batting second stats. Without even getting into details, I can tell you that he did not mess up many chases. It was not an uphill task in the first place.

He was phenomenal when batting with the tail which is why I consider him a better finisher than Dhoni and makes my ATG XI as well.However to call him the best batsman of the decade is generous to him. I wouldn't call any finisher that.

Also Gilchrist batted 46 times while chasing in this period. Ponting 50 and Bevan 66. It is comparable.

 

[h_hurricane]

Dhoni didn't reality start screwing up chases until after the last world's cup though. He's a champion who's run a few too many races and needs to be put out to stud.

Four and a half years is still a lot though. Below was another example of an easy chase which he messed up.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...lanka-2nd-odi-sri-lanka-tour-of-india-2006-07

 

[OverratedSanity]

Four and a half years is still a lot though. Below was another example of an easy chase which he messed up.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...lanka-2nd-odi-sri-lanka-tour-of-india-2006-07

Doesnt seem like a good example , just looking at the scorecard it looks like it was his partnership that got India back into the match.

 

[Daemon]

Bevan was lucky to be part of a dominant side. Easy to come in with no pressure once the top order has done the job and just single your way to a 50 ball 35*. Of course he played the odd rescue act, but every good batsmen does that. Just that those who are truly good get promoted up the order in weaker sides to do the heavy lifting, while Bevan could stay down there doing his thing because the rest of the side was good enough. Very lucky man.

Dhoni is basically playing a standard Bevan knock every time he comes out to bat these days.

 

[h_hurricane]

Doesnt seem like a good example , just looking at the scorecard it looks like it was his partnership that got India back into the match.

Not really. I watched that chase right through. India was in a dominant position in the first half of that chase. Had to get something like 4.5 runs an over then on. Dhoni kept pushing and prodding. Took it to the last over and then went for the glory shot, caught in the deep. Should not even have been this close let alone losing it. It was miserable watching it, but forgot quickly as it was a JAMODI leading to WC 2007.

 

[stephen]

Bevan was lucky to be part of a dominant side. Easy to come in with no pressure once the top order has done the job and just single your way to a 50 ball 35*. Of course he played the odd rescue act, but every good batsmen does that. Just that those who are truly good get promoted up the order in weaker sides to do the heavy lifting, while Bevan could stay down there doing his thing because the rest of the side was good enough. Very lucky man.

Dhoni is basically playing a standard Bevan knock every time he comes out to bat these days.

Given Bevan's style and the strengths of Australia's team, Bevan batting at 4 for half his career and 6 for the other half was as high as he needed to bat for the sake of the team.

He built his reputation on the times where the top order did fail send he'd come in and form a hundred run partnership with a tail ender top win the match.

His crowning achievement was probably his 65 in the 99 semi final but his most memorable innings' were when Australia were 4/ not many and he'd effortlessly chase down the total. I don't think I've ever seen anyone work the tail as well as Bevan.

 

[Daemon]

Given Bevan's style and the strengths of Australia's team, Bevan batting at 4 for half his career and 6 for the other half was as high as he needed to bat for the sake of the team.

He built his reputation on the times where the top order did fail send he'd come in and form a hundred run partnership with a tail ender top win the match.

His crowning achievement was probably his 65 in the 99 semi final but his most memorable innings' were when Australia were 4/ not many and he'd effortlessly chase down the total. I don't think I've ever seen anyone work the tail as well as Bevan.

Boring.

Tendulkar slapped the best bowlers and their new balls around for fun and scored hundreds at will. If he had the supporting cast of Bevan India would never lose. Just plain better.

Bevan only won like 20+ games for Australia chasing. Out of those maybe a third were from precarious situations. Thats fewer innings than Tendulkar scored hundreds in a year.

 

[cnerd123]

Yes, it's that easy to bait Stephen

this also is true tbf

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Dhoni is the best batsman of 00s