The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[a massive zebra]

Also the Derbyshire cricketer Bill Storer played several Tests for England as a wicket keeper and yet took hundreds of wickets in county cricket.

Storer also seems to have been a bit of a ****. Storer was 'severely reprimanded' for 'objectionable language' during the 1898 test where he was overheard to say "You are a cheat, and you know it", during the luncheon on the final day of the 5th test match at the Sydney Cricket Ground. According to the cricket writer E. H. D. Sewell, Storer strongly disapproved of the inclusion of West Indian Charles Olliviere in the Derbyshire side. He believed in "England for the English" and specifically objected to the presence of black people. Furthermore, in Scraps from a Cricketer's Memory, Storer's Derbyshire colleague L.G. Wright said Storer often bullied Ollivierre and was reprimanded by the Derbyshire captain Albert Lawton after he made it clear to Ollivierre that he was not welcome in the side.

 

[AndrewB]

There was the famous match in 1904 when Perrin scored 343 for Essex, but Ollivierre scored 229 for Derbyshire, Essex collapsed in the second innings and Derbyshire had to score 147 in the last session. After Wright was out early on, it looked like Ollivierre might score another 100, but Storer at the other end was trying to get his 50 (for his bonus money) - and Sewell (who was in the Essex side) suggested Storer was also trying to stop Ollivierre reaching his target. In the end Derbyshire reached their target but neither batsman did: Ollivierre reached 92* and Storer 48*. (FWIW Stephen Chalke's book on County Cricket says that Storer apologised to Ollivierre afterwards).

Alan Smith was another who kept wicket for England and took over 100 FC wickets, including a hat-trick. "On one occasion, Smith was a member of a Warwickshire team which boasted three international wicket-keepers, none of whom were keeping wicket: Deryck Murray was injured, Rohan Kanhai had given up keeping, and Smith had been selected for his bowling, leaving occasional wicket-keeper John Jameson behind the stumps" says Wikipedia.

Clyde Walcott is the only player with 10+ Test wickets and Test stumpings.

 

[Red]

cricinfo's world cup all time XI:

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Only 4 batsmen ?
What about Jayasurya, Anwar , Mark Waugh , Crowe, Dhoni , ABDV, Lara ..etc ?

No Kapil ?

Why do they need 2 spinners in every AT 11s ?

 

[Gob]

Only 4 batsmen ?
What about Jayasurya, Anwar , Mark Waugh , Crowe, Dhoni , ABDV, Lara ..etc ?

No Kapil ?

Why do they need 2 spinners in every AT 11s ?

They only have eleven spots

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I still maintain that Kapil was a glorified slogger in odis. His record is about the same as afridi's and no one really considers Lala as some excellent batsman in the format.

Kapil was a top 15 batsman most of the career according to the rankings.
Afridi's highest rank is 24 .
Venkatesh Prasad - Waqar Younis bowling ranking comparison would be closer than this.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

They only have eleven spots

They should have selected one more Batsman from that list.

 

[marc71178]

Kapil was a top 15 batsman most of the career according to the rankings.
Afridi's highest rank is 24 .
Venkatesh Prasad - Waqar Younis bowling ranking comparison would be closer than this.

Give it a rest. Kapil was just an early Afridi.

 

[Red]

Only 4 batsmen ?
What about Jayasurya, Anwar , Mark Waugh , Crowe, Dhoni , ABDV, Lara ..etc ?

No Kapil ?

Why do they need 2 spinners in every AT 11s ?

How can you honestly look at that XI and only see 4 batsmen?

 

[stephen]

Only 4 batsmen ?
What about Jayasurya, Anwar , Mark Waugh , Crowe, Dhoni , ABDV, Lara ..etc ?

No Kapil ?

Why do they need 2 spinners in every AT 11s ?

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Ponting
Viv
Sangakkara
Imran
Klusener

Is a ridiculous top 7. Especially when you're talking world cups. Gilchrist scored no less than 50 in three world cup finals.

Kapil is incredibly overrated. He was a decent bowler and hit a ridiculous innings against Zimbabwe in 83, but he wasn't that good that he deserves a spot. It's close between him and Imran but it's not like he's being denied a spot that was deserved to be his.

When your two spinners are Murali and Warne then talking both is something you do. Especially if you're talking world cups.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

How can you honestly look at that XI and only see 4 batsmen?

I won't trust Klusner / Kapil / Imran/ Flintoff/ Cairns as a specialist batsman.

Gilly - WK batsman

You already have 5 quality bowlers in Wasim, Murali , McGrath , Warne and Imran. Sachin and Viv can support when needed.
Effectively you are selecting , Klusner as a specialist bat ahead of ABDV or Lara . Lol.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Ponting
Viv
Sangakkara
Imran
Klusener

Is a ridiculous top 7. Especially when you're talking world cups. Gilchrist scored no less than 50 in three world cup finals.

Kapil is incredibly overrated. He was a decent bowler and hit a ridiculous innings against Zimbabwe in 83, but he wasn't that good that he deserves a spot. It's close between him and Imran but it's not like he's being denied a spot that was deserved to be his.

When your two spinners are Murali and Warne then talking both is something you do. Especially if you're talking world cups.

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Viv
Sanga
ABDV
Imran

Easily better though
(Even better if Kapil comes at 8 replacing one of Murali -Warne and i suggest Lara /Crowe / Abdv instead of sanga )

 

[a massive zebra]

Give it a rest. Kapil was just an early Afridi.

No way on earth would Afridi have had any chance of taking over 400 Test wickets at under 30. As a bowler, Kapil was leagues ahead.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

No way on earth would Afridi have had any chance of taking over 400 Test wickets at under 30. As a bowler, Kapil was leagues ahead.

As a Batsman Kapil was better
As a bowler Kapil was miles better

 

[marc71178]

No way on earth would Afridi have had any chance of taking over 400 Test wickets at under 30. As a bowler, Kapil was leagues ahead.

I’m purely talking about batting as that’s been the source of the significant overrating of him.

 

[stephen]

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Viv
Sanga
ABDV
Imran

Easily better though
(Even better if Kapil comes at 8 replacing one of Murali -Warne and i suggest Lara /Crowe / Abdv instead of sanga )

In world cups? Klusener was unstoppable in 1999. Not like Kapil-had-one-good-innings-Dev. He almost carried South Africa to a world cup with the bat and averaged over 100 in world cups. He's better than anyone else in the role of 5th bowler/ lower order hitter. If anyone doesn't really belong in the WC XI it's Imran or Sanga.

Kapil has claim to push the world cup ATXI, particularly if we take one player from each world cup, but you're severely over rating him. His record in 83 with the bat is like Guptill in 2015. He scored over half his runs in one innings against a minnow. It pads the stats but it isn't as impressive as it looks on the surface.

Now if you're talking an Indian ATXI then he's one of the first picked. Especially in tests.

 

[stephen]

For the record, I don't think Kapil offered enough with the bat to outweigh what Warne, Murali, McGrath or Wasim offered with the ball. So in my mind he's competing with Klusener for the number 7 spot.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I’m purely talking about batting as that’s been the source of the significant overrating of him.

Kapil was better bat than Afridi.
Just like Viv and Sehwag.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

In world cups? Klusener was unstoppable in 1999. Not like Kapil-had-one-good-innings-Dev. He almost carried South Africa to a world cup with the bat and averaged over 100 in world cups. He's better than anyone else in the role of 5th bowler/ lower order hitter. If anyone doesn't really belong in the WC XI it's Imran or Sanga.

Kapil has claim to push the world cup ATXI, particularly if we take one player from each world cup, but you're severely over rating him. His record in 83 with the bat is like Guptill in 2015. He scored over half his runs in one innings against a minnow. It pads the stats but it isn't as impressive as it looks on the surface.

Now if you're talking an Indian ATXI then he's one of the first picked. Especially in tests.

Klusner over Kapil is ok.
Klusner over Brian Lara is not ok.

When it comes to Kapil Vs Klusner
Klusner better bat , Kapil far better bowler.
Overall Kapil for me.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

For the record, I don't think Kapil offered enough with the bat to outweigh what Warne, Murali, McGrath or Wasim offered with the ball. So in my mind he's competing with Klusener for the number 7 spot.

I don't think so.
Kapil was a match winning batsman + almost great bowler.
His eco.rate belong to top league and his bat strike rate is arguably best ever. dream combo for odis