ODI ATG XIs

[Dan]

Alright, let's end it. The undisputed GOAT ODI XI:

1. Jonty Rhodes
2. Nick Knight
3. Dirk Viljoen (6)
4. Scott Kremerskothen * (2)
5. Asif Mujtaba (8)
6. Nick Bertus +
7. Sairaj Bahutule (7)
8. Vic Marks (4)
9. Trevor Laughlin (3)
10. Kaushal Lokuarachchi (5)
11. Vasbert Drakes (1)

Don't @ me.

 

[Bolo]

Slow Batting ? His Strike Rate is excellent for the era he played.

World class bowler + decent Bat , I don't think there are many names in that category.
Kapil , Imran .. Botham may be..

His sr is fine for his era. But hes a lowerish order bat. You expect him to score really quickly. He always seemed to be faffing a bit considering the number of balls available.

And compared to pretty much all the other ARs mentioned in this thread he was slow, even after you adjust for era

 

[ankitj]

Slow Batting ? His Strike Rate is excellent for the era he played.

World class bowler + decent Bat , I don't think there are many names in that category.
Kapil , Imran .. Botham may be..

Indeed Imran's strike rate is quite good. I had assumed it would be in early 60s. But at 72.65 he is quite good for the era.

 

[smash84]

Yeah, surprised he's at 73. For his era that's pretty good. That's a Dean Jones level SR I think.

 

[ankitj]

Yeah, that is indeed at Dean Jones level.

 

[trundler]

His role in Pakistan's team would probably have been more Jones than Kapil too.

 

[Bolo]

The problem Pollock has is he doesn't add much to an all time side. Klusener is so much better in that role. Pollock was a better bouquet but the 5th bowler doesn't need to be great, they aren't taking the new rock, they're bowling to set batsmen and are trying to sneak through their overs without leaking huge runs. They're not wicket takers and don't need to be.

The idea that your 5th bowler can be poor is test analysis bleeding into odis. The pasting that part timers take against even regular sides shows what a hole there is.

In a team with 4 specialist bowlers and 5 specialist bats you are trying to cover what is generally accepted as a bigger hole in the batting than the one in the bowling, so a batting AR is the normal route. But there is no reason you can't cover the batting hole by playing 2 bowling ARs instead (assuming you think there are two who are good enough).

Im not sure I agree with your assessment of the new ball bowlers being critical (not disagreeing either because there is a logic to it, I just don't know how it plays out in actual games). If what you are saying is correct though, it boosts the case for Pollock. I reckon he was the best new ball bowler of the last 30 years (can't compare him to older players). He's a substantially worse old ball bowler than a number of others, but if what you are saying is correct, this isnt so important.

 

[stephen]

So in a hypothetical side with McGrath, Pollock, Akram and Garner you would pretty much have to open with Pollock and McGrath to get value out of Pollock. Akram was good with the old ball and Garner used to bowl first change already.

I guess that could work but I still think that Pollock is the weak link and will be successfully targeted by the batsman (see what happened to him in the 2007 world cup - Hayden smashed him out of the attack early on). And unless you're going to bowl him out, he's going to need to bowl with the old ball at some stage.

I guess a case can be made for five bowlers in an all time side because the top six batsmen are going to get the job done consistently. But it still feels wrong and leaves a vulnerability to exploit. As we saw numerous times during Australia's reign, collapses can happen even with great sides.

That's why I think a Klusener or Symonds should be the fifth bowler - someone who could come in during the late overs and pummel the death bowling.

 

[trundler]

That one time time he was 40 should definitely discredit every great thing he'd done before.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I guess that could work but I still think that Pollock is the weak link and will be successfully targeted by the batsman (see what happened to him in the 2007 world cup - Hayden smashed him out of the attack early on). And unless you're going to bowl him out, he's going to need to bowl with the old ball at some stage.

Very small sample size. And in Warner Park of all places (Gibbs' six sixes a few days earlier).

Irony is that his last world cup wicket was that of Matthew Hayden

 

[TheJediBrah]

Pollock was past his best in 2007 anyway

 

[trundler]

Late 90s Pollock best Pollock

 

[stephen]

I didn't realise how big of a disparity Pollock's home and away stats were in ODIs. Averaged 20 at home, 28 at neutral and 29 away. I always thought he was more consistent than that.

Anyway I wouldn't have him in an AT XI over a batting all rounder.

 

[stephen]

Pollock was past his best in 2007 anyway

He was the number one ranked odi bowler going into the world cup.

 

[vcs]

That Hayden assault on him in 2007 was scary. I remember he'd destroyed India just a few months before that when SA walloped India.

 

[h_hurricane]

Mcgrath was as vulnerable to getting hit in ODIs by good, great and decent batsmen as Pollock. It is just that Glenn was better in getting wickets and turned up more often in World Cups. But it is not as if Pollock was poor when it mattered. His bowling in 1999 world cup semis was spectacular.

I would easily prefer Pollock over any part time bowler plus big hitting batting allrounder. The extra runs produced by the big hitter would not be conceded by Shaun in the first place.

 

[Borges]

Hmm.. interesting. So we are looking for bowlers who have never been slaughtered in even one ODI game.

The aforementioned Pollock is certainly out; Hayden saw to that. And the aforementioned McGrath too is out; Razzak took care of that.
May be Garner, may be Ambrose, I'm not too sure about these either.

Other than that, we should start digging deep: look for bowlers who haven't played more than a dozen or so ODI games.
I found one: Garry Sobers as the lead bowler. in no ODI game that he played did he go for more than three runs an over.

 

[mr_mister]

Greatbatch got after Ambrose in 92

 

[OverratedSanity]

Inzi once pulled Ambrose for a flat six over square leg. Still remember Ambrose's face lmao he was so mad.

 

[mr_mister]

Collin Miller also made him look amateur in '99