ODI ATG XIs

[Victor Ian]

Runs/innings for the following:

Dhoni : 36.54
Tendulkar : 40.76
Richards : 40.24
AB de Villiers : 43.93
Kohli : 49.21

I'm surprised by Dhoni there. Batting in an era where total scores were so much more than Bevan's era, batting lower in the order, I really thought he'd be about 10 runs clear. Perhaps he had better batters coming before limiting his time to bat. But then again, Bevan's upper order were no slouches with the bat either.

Kohli just owning this era like Viv did.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm surprised Tendulkar's is so low

 

[h_hurricane]

I'm surprised Tendulkar's is so low

He played for 23 years and a humungous 450 + innings. Players who play that long are subject to more dips in their career. Also, he was a middle order bat for around 5 years when the average scores were around 220. 40+ /innings is pretty awesome.

 

[srbhkshk]

I'm surprised Tendulkar's is so low

His rpi as an opener is 45.02.

 

[stephen]

So basically what we're saying is that any argument against Bevan being an ATG and within the top half dozen ODI bats in history is complete garbage.

 

[srbhkshk]

So basically what we're saying is that any argument against Bevan being an ATG and within the top half dozen ODI bats in history is complete garbage.

The only argument against Bevan in the world ATG XI is the existence of Dhoni and given his 4-5 crap years on trot now it's not a very strong one.

 

[stephen]

By comparison, Ponting's rpi is 37.5. He started later than Bevan and batted higher in the order.

Batting higher than 4, Bevan's rpi was 33.5 (4 innings)
Batting at 4, Bevan's rpi was 42.7 (53 innings).
Batting at 5 his rpi was 35.3 (33 innings).
Batting at 6 his rpi was 34.5 (87 innings).
Batting lower than 6 his rpi was 18 (19 innings).

Ponting's rpi batting at 3 was 38.4 (330 innings).

So on the rpi measure, Bevan made more rpi than his atg contemporary when batting in a comparable batting position.

 

[stephen]

Looking at the top run scorers batting at 6 in ODIs:

Dhoni 4031 runs at 32 rpi ave 46
Bevan 3006 @ 34.5 rpi ave 56
Boucher 2387 @ 24.4 rpi ave 30
Dilshan 2046 @ 23.5 rpi ave 29
Hussey 1942 @ 26.2 rpi ave 40

Bevan averages 10 runs higher in that position than Dhoni and scored 2.5 runs per innings more than Dhoni.

Hussey a distant 3rd behind those two.

 

[stephen]

Oh and at number 4 Bevan still had the highest average (min 1000 runs).

I think Bevan was dropped too soon for Australia, batting him at 7 was a waste. I think he'd have gotten a 3rd world cup win in 2007. Still, a ten year career averaging over 50 when your nearest contemporaries are averaging 40 against the best fast bowling attacks in history is pretty damned good.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He played for 23 years and a humungous 450 + innings. Players who play that long are subject to more dips in their career. Also, he was a middle order bat for around 5 years when the average scores were around 220. 40+ /innings is pretty awesome.

yes I know. I didn't say it was bad, or not awesome. Just that I would have thought it would be higher.

Oh and at number 4 Bevan still had the highest average (min 1000 runs).

I think Bevan was dropped too soon for Australia, batting him at 7 was a waste. I think he'd have gotten a 3rd world cup win in 2007. Still, a ten year career averaging over 50 when your nearest contemporaries are averaging 40 against the best fast bowling attacks in history is pretty damned good.

Yeah I don't think so. Bevan was struggling even in 2004. There's no way he would have been even close to Australia's best team in 2007.

 

[Victor Ian]

The only argument against Bevan in the world ATG XI is the existence of Dhoni and given his 4-5 crap years on trot now it's not a very strong one.

Take away the last 5 years and Dhoni only scores 37 per innings. So, 37 versus 34 in an era where scores over 300 are the norm versus one where it was rare. Teams probably score 20% more now so Dhoni should score 34+20% or roughly 41 to be on par. I am probably underselling it at 20%.

As far as any Dhoni debate goes, I think it is disingenuous to write him down for his last 5 years. Take away his last five years and his career was already as long as Bevan's. If a player is not fortunate enough to have a team managment move him on it is not his fault. Dhoni was amongst the worlds best player for his first 10 years. The last 5 don't bring that down at all.

 

[srbhkshk]

Take away the last 5 years and Dhoni only scores 37 per innings. So, 37 versus 34 in an era where scores over 300 are the norm versus one where it was rare. Teams probably score 20% more now so Dhoni should score 34+20% or roughly 41 to be on par. I am probably underselling it at 20%.

As far as any Dhoni debate goes, I think it is disingenuous to write him down for his last 5 years. Take away his last five years and his career was already as long as Bevan's. If a player is not fortunate enough to have a team managment move him on it is not his fault. Dhoni was amongst the worlds best player for his first 10 years. The last 5 don't bring that down at all.

Yeah but at that time his era adjusted SR was probably quite a bit better than Bevan.

 

[Victor Ian]

Yeah but at that time his era adjusted SR was probably quite a bit better than Bevan.

Can someone take this up? I'm not sure how to do it. I'm not trying to make a case of Bevan over dhoni. I love them both. Just curious do comparisons sake.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I doubt it'd be much higher than Bevan's.

 

[srbhkshk]

Can someone take this up? I'm not sure how to do it. I'm not trying to make a case of Bevan over dhoni. I love them both. Just curious do comparisons sake.

Average SR for Bevan's career was 72.19, Bevan was at 74.16.
Average SR for first 10 years of Dhoni's career was 78.39, Dhoni was at 89.28.

 

[stephen]

yes I know. I didn't say it was bad, or not awesome. Just that I would have thought it would be higher.



Yeah I don't think so. Bevan was struggling even in 2004. There's no way he would have been even close to Australia's best team in 2007.

Yeah you're right. He was injured for most of the 2006/07 ODD season.

 

[vcs]

The only argument against Bevan in the world ATG XI is the existence of Dhoni and given his 4-5 crap years on trot now it's not a very strong one.

Bevan had Hussey come along to replace him as soon as he declined. For all our moaning about him, it's hard to find a keeper-batsman of the same quality (maybe Pant could have been the answer but we'll never know before the World Cup now). If Dhoni had been a specialist bat, he'd have been phased out by now. Bit harsh to hold the last 3-4 years against his legacy.

 

[stephen]

I'm pretty sure Hussey didn't debut until a year or so after Bevan retired.

 

[vcs]

Oh. My bad then. He never seemed to go through any extended bad form, just suddenly kinda disappeared from Australia's ODI side. Maybe I wasn't paying attention back then.

I do remember Clarke playing really well when Australia won the TVS Cup in India in 2003, not sure whether Bevan played in that tour.

 

[morgieb]

Oh. My bad then. He never seemed to go through any extended bad form, just suddenly kinda disappeared from Australia's ODI side. Maybe I wasn't paying attention back then.

I do remember Clarke playing really well when Australia won the TVS Cup in India in 2003, not sure whether Bevan played in that tour.

Bevan was dumped in 2004 I think.

From memory Bevan's form had hit a bit of a slump and I think cricket was getting to the point where his SR was a bit of a liability batting so low (also probably the victim of Australia's ODI team being so good at that point). And also he was viewed as being unlikely to survive until the 07 World Cup.