Which Indian team do you think will win in a 5 test series ?

[sunilz]

He literally had a fractured spine which kept him out of cricket for 18 months, came back from it and regained his place as the best quick going around. I don't want to sound churlish, but carrying a niggle into a game because you're overweight and then being able to play on a test or two later is a very different thing to having an injury which had ended the career of anyone who'd had it before 1973. Just a weird argument to hang your hat on. You'd be far better off just relying on the Pakistan series in 81 and saying "small sample size but it's a hole in his record" than relying on the WI test at all.

For some reason you're wanting to look at the records of blokes like Ashwin, who gets to tour everywhere over a four year period, to someone from a different era who didn't tour as many places or as often. It's just a weird comparison to make. If Lillee had played as many tests in the sort of conditions you're hanging your hat on as Ponting did tests in India, you'd have a good enough selection of matches to say Lillee couldn't bowl in those conditions. But the matches just aren't there to make the comparison a valid one.

He tours everywhere because he is Indian . Our players are not like AUS cricketers who tour according to their wish . Care to tell me why Greg chappell has played only 9 test in Asia + WI ?

 

[Starfighter]

He tours everywhere because he is Indian . Our players are not like AUS cricketers who tour according to their wish . Care to tell me why Greg chappell has played only 9 test in Asia + WI ?

Greg Chappell wasn't writing the schedule silly. Also this small thing called 'World Series Cricket' you probably haven't heard of.

 

[Burgey]

I think it's a fair enough point that he shouldve played more though

Pray tell how? He missed another tour of Pakistan, but Australia didn't tour WI or India outside the WSC period during his entire career. He toured with the WSC Australian team in March 79 and took 17 poles in four games at 30 odd. Nothing outstanding but hardly terrible either. Unless you're suggesting he shouldn't have gone to WSC, but if he hadn't there really wouldn't have been a WSC.

 

[Burgey]

He tours everywhere because he is Indian . Our players are not like AUS cricketers who tour according to their wish . Care to tell me why Greg chappell has played only 9 test in Asia + WI ?

You're literally comparing a bloke playing currently to someone who played 40 years ago, and wonder why their touring records are different. This is junk, even by your standards.

 

[sunilz]

Kohli has played more test outside Asia in 2018/19 than Steve smith has played in Asia in his entire career.

 

[sunilz]

You're literally comparing a bloke playing currently to someone who played 40 years ago, and wonder why their touring records are different. This is junk, even by your standards.

Please also check number of overseas test played by Gavaskar if my comparison is junk . When you can't answer a question , you start abusing.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

This is cricket.com.au facebook comments section level dire

 

[Starfighter]

Kohli has played more test outside Asia in 2018/19 than Steve smith has played in Asia in his entire career.

No nuance escapes you does it? What part of 'the players don't write the schedule' is alien to you? Too inconvenient to your argument?

 

[sunilz]

No nuance escapes you does it? What part of 'the players don't write the schedule' is alien to you? Too inconvenient to your argument?

So if a cricketer doesn't play enough in unfavourable circumstances , then they shouldn't be considered Gold tier ATG like Steyn, Marshall, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Lara, Warne etc .? Is it a fair question ?

 

[Burgey]

Please also check number of overseas test played by Gavaskar if my comparison is junk . When you can't answer a question , you start abusing.

Mate, this is genuinely terrible. If your team isn't touring, you can't just decide to go and play a test by yourself. India toured here in 77-78, 80-81, 85-86, 91-92 and then 99-00. So there's an eight year gap between those last two. Is it somehow a player's fault that no tours happened at that time? It's just primary school level stuff, not even high school.

 

[h_hurricane]

He literally had a fractured spine which kept him out of cricket for 18 months, came back from it and regained his place as the best quick going around. I don't want to sound churlish, but carrying a niggle into a game because you're overweight and then being able to play on a test or two later is a very different thing to having an injury which had ended the career of anyone who'd had it before 1973. Just a weird argument to hang your hat on. You'd be far better off just relying on the Pakistan series in 81 and saying "small sample size but it's a hole in his record" than relying on the WI test at all.

For some reason you're wanting to look at the records of blokes like Ashwin, who gets to tour everywhere over a four year period, to someone from a different era who didn't tour as many places or as often. It's just a weird comparison to make. If Lillee had played as many tests in the sort of conditions you're hanging your hat on as Ponting did tests in India, you'd have a good enough selection of matches to say Lillee couldn't bowl in those conditions. But the matches just aren't there to make the comparison a valid one.

No one is disputing the small sample size of Lillee in SC and WI. His record there only looks as bad as Ashwin, Jadeja or Yasir in their worst 5-6 tests in SENA. Yet, these blokes have had impactful performances in SENA in other tests (Ashwin in Aus, Jadeja in Eng and Aus, Yasir in England). In one of my earlier posts, I backed Lillee to put in some good performances in SC similar to these 3 in SENA. If he is still rated as a favorable track bully because his overall record looks similar to these 3 guys, do you contest that ?

 

[Burgey]

So if a cricketer doesn't play enough in unfavourable circumstances , then they shouldn't be considered Gold tier ATG like Steyn, Marshall, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Lara, Warne etc .? Is it a fair question ?

Everyone knows this is going to lead to sunilz saying tendulkar > Bradman.

The only question is whether this occurs within the next 4-6 hours, or whether it takes another day or two.

 

[Starfighter]

Also h_hurricane is dead wrong about pitches in WI being bowler friendly when Lillee toured. The run of low averaging series there only started in '77 wth the series against Pakistan. All series from from '68 to '76 inclusive were batting friendly, and Lloyd only determinedly adopted the four pacers strategy after India's record chase in the third test in '76.

 

[Burgey]

No one is disputing the small sample size of Lillee in SC and WI. His record there only looks as bad as Ashwin, Jadeja or Yasir in their worst 5-6 tests in SENA. Yet, these blokes have had impactful performances in SENA in other tests (Ashwin in Aus, Jadeja in Eng and Aus, Yasir in England). In one of my earlier posts, I backed Lillee to put in some good performances in SC similar to these 3 in SENA. If he is still rated as a favorable track bully because his overall record looks similar to these 3 guys, do you contest that ?

Yeah but he didn't have the chance to put those performances in. I mean, if he'd toured as often as Ashwin has and stunk it up as bad you'd have a point. But he didn't. All you can say is you dont' know how he would have gone if he'd toured there more. This isn't like a Ponting in India type argument where you can genuinely say he had enough goes there to have a big impact but didn't.

 

[Starfighter]

So if a cricketer doesn't play enough in unfavourable circumstances , then they shouldn't be considered Gold tier ATG like Steyn, Marshall, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Lara, Warne etc .? Is it a fair question ?

Perhaps watch the player in the conditions they have been known to play in and look at the context of their performances before making a judgment. This is not fantasy cricket, it's not played on an Excel spreadsheet.

 

[Burgey]

Also h_hurricane is dead wrong about pitches in WI being bowler friendly when Lillee toured. The run of low averaging series there only started in '77 wth the series against Pakistan. All series from from '68 to '76 inclusive were batting friendly, and Lloyd only determinedly adopted the four pacers strategy after India's record chase in the third test in '76.

TBF I think that was a point I was making, not h_hurricane.

Though given our respective posting histories, it's understandable you would think he'd made another error, rather than there being a rare blemish on my part.

 

[sunilz]

Mate, this is genuinely terrible. If your team isn't touring, you can't just decide to go and play a test by yourself. India toured here in 77-78, 80-81, 85-86, 91-92 and then 99-00. So there's an eight year gap between those last two. Is it somehow a player's fault that no tours happened at that time? It's just primary school level stuff, not even high school.

Players who haven't played enough in alien conditions shouldn't be compared with players who have performed almost everywhere . It's just a play school level stuff .

 

[Starfighter]

TBF I think that was a point I was making, not h_hurricane.

Though given our respective posting histories, it's understandable you would think he'd made another error, rather than there being a rare blemish on my part.

Thanks for making me look a nonce while trying to help you.

 

[h_hurricane]

Everyone knows this is going to lead to sunilz saying tendulkar > Bradman.

The only question is whether this occurs within the next 4-6 hours, or whether it takes another day or two.

Bradman is unarguably the greatest batsman of all time because he averaged almost twice as much as anyone else. Bradman comparison with Tendulkar does not make any sense at all.

It makes absolute sense to say Steyn, Marshall, Mcgrath, Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Lara, Warne etc belong to gold tier and Lillee just a tier below them. Lillee did not average 12 or 13 to give him a headstart over Marshall or Mcgrath.

 

[Burgey]

Players who haven't played enough in alien conditions shouldn't be compared with players who have performed almost everywhere . It's just a play school level stuff .

But this is exactly what you and the other fella have been doing.