Basic questions

[andmark]

Nah all the Shveshnikov games were very interesting imo.

I'm not a huge Sicillian player (Queen's gambit and French defense FTW) so that might explain some of my apathy to it. That said, Carlsen's 12 game draw offer was the least Tal thing that's ever happened.

 

[mr_mister]

Interesting how trolls complain about opinions without isolating a single fact in support of their own.



Interesting concept. The Yankees have 20 people in its analytical department. That leaves them tied with the Dodgers. https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/arti...endous_analytics_department/s1_13237_27420533 The deal with results like https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yelicch01-bat.shtml which add up to 40 and 50 columns in a spreadsheet. How many people in all of cricket are there figuring out runs against replacement (how much better player X is than the standardized non-roster player who would replace him if he left the team) or how he is doing against left-handed pitching indoors or the number of revolutions per minute occur on his fastball vs his curve vs his splitter vs his slider. I'm guessing it isn't a lot.

Also a team like the NFL Giants have about 20 coaches for 53 players for 16 games. They spend entire weeks breaking down video of prior games, studying practices, and creating detailed playbooks of 1000 pages that are regularly updated and regular game plans. Does cricket even have coaches?

Talk about overkill. Sport isn't that important. Put the money into hospitals

 

[weldone]

Put the money into hospitals

Haha ya a country full of obese people and junk food needs way more hospitals.

 

[StephenZA]

Howe was right.... never doubting him again.

 

[andmark]

Interesting how trolls complain about opinions without isolating a single fact in support of their own.



Interesting concept. The Yankees have 20 people in its analytical department. That leaves them tied with the Dodgers. https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/arti...endous_analytics_department/s1_13237_27420533 The deal with results like https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yelicch01-bat.shtml which add up to 40 and 50 columns in a spreadsheet. How many people in all of cricket are there figuring out runs against replacement (how much better player X is than the standardized non-roster player who would replace him if he left the team) or how he is doing against left-handed pitching indoors or the number of revolutions per minute occur on his fastball vs his curve vs his splitter vs his slider. I'm guessing it isn't a lot.

Also a team like the NFL Giants have about 20 coaches for 53 players for 16 games. They spend entire weeks breaking down video of prior games, studying practices, and creating detailed playbooks of 1000 pages that are regularly updated and regular game plans. Does cricket even have coaches?

If we're to get into "does x even have y?" territory, does the American Football even have serious international matches?

 

[rodk]

If we're to get into "does x even have y?" territory, does the American Football even have serious international matches?

No. And unless there is a secret team somewhere that can compete with the Steelers, Patriots, etc, that does not seem like much of a prospect.

Also, football hardly lends itself to tournaments. Teams can only play once a week and so many weeks a year without endangering the players. How would you format a tournament that didn't disrupt the league, doesn't involve ridiculously abbreviated games, didn't take months on end, didn't result in injuries, and didn't end up with the US team winning the final 1000-0?

The NFL playoffs take 5 weeks, and that's without the teams traveling abroad and needing to acclimate to different weather and time.

 

[andmark]

No. And unless there is a secret team somewhere that can compete with the Steelers, Patriots, etc, that does not seem like much of a prospect.

Also, football hardly lends itself to tournaments. Teams can only play once a week and so many weeks a year without endangering the players. How would you format a tournament that didn't disrupt the league, doesn't involve ridiculously abbreviated games, didn't take months on end, didn't result in injuries, and didn't end up with the US team winning the final 1000-0?

The NFL playoffs take 5 weeks, and that's without the teams traveling abroad and needing to acclimate to different weather and time.

There have been attempts at it such as this, but the USA has won every one it entered in (both of the other two were won by Japan). But when you said "does cricket even have coaches",the implication seemed to be to say that cricket was behind the likes of the NFL, even though cricket is a much more international sport than American Football.

 

[rodk]

Talk about overkill. Sport isn't that important. Put the money into hospitals

It is such a nice idea, they already do it -- but in reverse. New York Presbyterian Hospital is a sponsor of both the Yankees https://www.nyp.org/news/NYP-Announces-Relationship-With-Bronx-Bombers-as-Official-Hospit and the New York City Football Club (soccer) https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news...-presbyterian-hospital-announce-collaboration The Mets are partnered with the Northwell Health Care System. https://www.northwell.edu/about/news/mets-and-northwell-health-announce-new-partnership It seems like the best way for hospitals to get paid is for them to pay the teams, not vice versa.

Haha ya a country full of obese people and junk food needs way more hospitals.

Maybe so. But I did notice the New Zealand vs. Pakistan series is played for a bowl of potato chips.

 

[rodk]

This sort of thing has been part of mainstream cricket TV broadcasts for my entire life, let alone behind the scenes. People like CricViz do even more sophisticated work and I believe the teams themselves have enormously in-depth video analysis.

Baseball has its WinExpectancy https://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/we/ that seems to be more or less the same as cricviz but probably is more mathematically complex because baseball has much more in the way of situations. A batsman may come to the middle 100 or 150 or 200 runs behind but always with exactly two wickets taken if he is in the fourth spot in the lineup; a batter may come to the plate 3, 2, 1 or no runs behind with 0, 1, 2 or 3 runners on in as many as eight permutations, with zero, one or two outs anytime he comes up. The batsman with two wickets gone has one of 3 players as a partner who may or may not be fast enough to leg out 2's or 3's to increase the scoring and the batsman's personal productivity; the batter as 8 permutations of baserunning combinations in front of him, and there can be as many as 5 different combinations as to who those guys are. Cricviz says it is based on 500 real games and simulations; Fangraphs is based on historical results from tens of thousands of games.

 

[andmark]

Baseball has its WinExpectancy https://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/we/ that seems to be more or less the same as cricviz but probably is more mathematically complex because baseball has much more in the way of situations. A batsman may come to the middle 100 or 150 or 200 runs behind but always with exactly two wickets taken if he is in the fourth spot in the lineup; a batter may come to the plate 3, 2, 1 or no runs behind with 0, 1, 2 or 3 runners on in as many as eight permutations, with zero, one or two outs anytime he comes up. The batsman with two wickets gone has one of 3 players as a partner who may or may not be fast enough to leg out 2's or 3's to increase the scoring and the batsman's personal productivity; the batter as 8 permutations of baserunning combinations in front of him, and there can be as many as 5 different combinations as to who those guys are. Cricviz says it is based on 500 real games and simulations; Fangraphs is based on historical results from tens of thousands of games.

With all due respect, but are you sure of that given you asked about a test world cup in the West Indies thread? Before you get into the deep statistical analysis which is possible in cricket (see pretty much any post DaysofGrace has posted this year), just try to get to understand the game on a qualitative level first.

 

[trundler]

Haha, imagine complaining about there not being enough stats in cricket on cricket web..

 

[rodk]

Originally Posted by rodk How are baseball players pampered?

A set lineup. And obvioulsy 100 mil contracts

I took a gander at the IPL salaries, and it looks like cricket players in that league are paid much better than almost all major leaguers on a per game or per day basis. https://www.statista.com/statistics/675301/average-ipl-salary-by-team/ The average salary for Bangalore for 6 weeks is $5.2 million; if it was spread out for the 7 month period of baseball (and I don't know if there is enough interest for it to be possible) then their salary would be $26 million per year. That is pretty much dead on what Kohli made last year. https://www.wisden.com/stories/news-stories/virat-kohli-worlds-highest-paid-cricketer-forbes

Only a handful of guys in American sports make that. Only 10 NFL players do. Only the most celebrated American athlete, LeBron James, and a few boxers, such as Floyd Mayweather, make significantly more than that kind of money.

 

[rodk]

With all due respect, but are you sure of that given you asked about a test world cup in the West Indies thread?

Sorry for the confusion but my very good newspaper (The New York Times) did not have specific enough information for me to ascertain that.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The average salary for Bangalore for 6 weeks is $5.2 million; if it was spread out for the 7 month period of baseball (and I don't know if there is enough interest for it to be possible) then their salary would be $26 million per year. That is pretty much dead on what Kohli made last year. https://www.wisden.com/stories/news-stories/virat-kohli-worlds-highest-paid-cricketer-forbes

Only a handful of guys in American sports make that. Only 10 NFL players do. Only the most celebrated American athlete, LeBron James, and a few boxers, such as Floyd Mayweather, make significantly more than that kind of money.

Kohli makes most of his money from endorsements.


And this is new:

 

[trundler]

Athletes are grossly overpaid, yes.

 

[trundler]

I think you begin appreciate as you learn its subtleties and quirks. Cricket has a plethora of those and it's hard to explain the excitement of a team trying to claw their way to a draw on an unforgiving day 5 pitch. I've tried and failed with baseball though. Just seems so shallow and an overall downgrade compared to cricket.

Sidenote: cricket, baseball, rugby, and hockey are the only respectable major sports.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I like this shift.

Well played trundler

 

[rodk]

I've tried and failed with baseball though. Just seems so shallow and an overall downgrade compared to cricket.

Sidenote: cricket, baseball, rugby, and hockey are the only respectable major sports.

It isn't. Baseball has every element of cricket -- the confrontation between the batter and the guy delivering the ball -- and thousands more.

The productive use of outs. Hit and run. The use of full rosters with substitutions. Base runners who distract the defense. Runners on the move with the pitch, usually at full speed. Double plays. The thousands of specific techniques to properly play defense: how to make a correct tag, how to set your feet on receiving a throw vs a batted ball, how to line up a throw from the outfield and when to cut off a throw from the outfield, how to catch a ball falling into the stands, where to throw the ball back if there are multiple runners on base, how to get a lead off of first and how that does not apply to second or third, how to steal off a lefty vs a righty. How to start and complete a rundown or hold a runner from advancing on an infield ground ball. How to play a batted ball off the fence. How to know to swing at a pitch that seems like it will hit you in the head before swerving 12 inches across and 24 inches down. The weighing of today's game against tomorrow's and the day after's. Dozens of specific situations that can come up at any time in any game and require a specific approach to batting. The immutable law that the winning run can come at any time in a game and that virtually no lead is definitive. The absence of a motive to stall.

Mostly, there's the 98 mph fastball that could not be hit with a cricket bat either as the result of precise execution vs the 52 mile an hour bowl coming on the run, a speed typical of 10 and 11 year old pitchers.

I have heard the checkers vs. chess argument. It holds no water. My own baseball bookshelf has about 60 volumes to explain what happens during a game.

I know I'm ignorant about cricket. I choose not to be ignorant. That does not seem to be the uniform rule here.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The silly point and gully in cricket is enough to kill all of that.

Add forward short-leg, leg-slip, cow corner, sweeper, long-leg.

Ever heard of the Dilscoop? Shoulder arm? Sidebottom? Bourda?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Lemme add Gravy from the Antigua Recreation Ground for good measure