DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[StephenZA]

Top 10 matches/MoM award for players with >= 5 such awards:

Player	Mat/Awards
Wasim Akram (PAK)	6.12
K Rabada (SA)	6.40
RA Jadeja (INDIA)	6.50
VD Philander (SA)	6.88
M Muralitharan (ICC/SL)	7.00
CEL Ambrose (WI)	7.00
SPD Smith (AUS)	7.11
JH Kallis (ICC/SA)	7.22
Imran Khan (PAK)	8.00
MD Marshall (WI)	8.10

All of Wasim's MoM awards: All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Surprised how high Philander is on that....

 

[Bolo]

Surprised how high Philander is on that....

He goes ballistic on very friendly pitches a whole lot. Plus his batting would have contributed.

 

[Days of Grace]

I think DoG's methodology doesn't so much distinguish between top order wickets vs. tail end wickets. That's one potential area to improve this methodology on. DoG can confirm.

Top 7 wickets are worth double that of 8-11 wickets when analyzing a performance, yes. In an overall PPI that might make a difference of about 0.25 if you took a lot of lower order wickets.

 

[StephenZA]

He goes ballistic on very friendly pitches a whole lot. Plus his batting would have contributed.

I don't think it is even a bowler friendly thing... 2/3 of his 5+ come from Newlands.

 

[StephenZA]

Top 7 wickets are worth double that of 8-11 wickets when analyzing a performance, yes. In an overall PPI that might make a difference of about 0.25 if you took a lot of lower order wickets.

What happens when you are facing Aus or Eng nowadays and their bottom 3 batsmen are worth more than the top 3?

 

[smash84]

Wasim really is an interesting case (kind of like Lillee). His stats don't show him more favorably than some of the other bowlers but he is rated the best fast bowler by some of this most illustrious peers.

Brian Lara, Sangakkara, Allan Donald, Glenn McG, Ambrose, Jacques Kallils

They all rate him the best

 

[harsh.ag]

What happens when you are facing Aus or Eng nowadays and their bottom 3 batsmen are worth more than the top 3?

Frustration in the commonwealth.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.19

Anil Kumble (India) 831

Quality Points: 661
Career Points: 170

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fvPhSb6L7o

Career: 1990-2008
Wickets: 619
Gold Performances: 6
6/64 vs. England at Chennai 1993 (15.14)
7/59 vs. Sri Lanka at Lucknow 1994 (15.73)
10/74 vs. Pakistan at Delhi 1999 (20.88)
8/141 vs. Australia at Sydney 2004 (17.38)
7/48 vs. Australia at Chennai 2004 (17.26)
7/63 vs. Pakistan at Kolkata 2005 (17.39)
Silver Performances: 23
Bronze Performances: 11

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 27.20 (29.65) 65.26 (65.99) 5.26 (rank 56)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2000-2004): 24.20 58.13 6.79 (rank 42)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 32.43 73.42 4.08 (rank 88)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.95 62.26 5.54 (rank 43)

India's greatest wicket-taker, Anil Kumble gave 18 years of service to his side, winning them numerous matches. His average (even after a large adjustment) and strike-rate are not outstanding by any means, and his record away from home is relatively poor. But he gets into the top 20 on longevity. Only Muraliharan and Warne have more career points or "medal" performances.

 

[Bolo]

I don't think it is even a bowler friendly thing... 2/3 of his 5+ come from Newlands.

Newlands is a mixed bag. It produces the lowest and the highest scores in the country recently.

 

[Burgey]

I think that’s Anil “Spirit of Cricket” Kumble actually.

 

[harsh.ag]

Rabada might have the highest number of quality points to be ranked this high.

 

[trundler]

Rabada might have the highest number of quality points to be ranked this high.

Barnes

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Barnes

yeah but Barnes' career was 13 years (although intermittent). Rabada only has 3 so he's barely gonna get any career points (if I understand the methodology)

 

[OverratedSanity]

To Kumble's credit, he became a very good overseas bowler in the second half of his career. Post 2002, his major overseas tours were:

2002 in Eng : 14 wickets in 3 games @36
2004 in Aus: 24 wickets in 3 games @ 29
2006 in SA: 14 wickets in 3 games @ 24
2007 in Eng: 14 wickets in 3 games @34
2008 in Aus: 20 wickets in 4 games @34

Rock solid overseas figures for an overseas spinner tbh, especially considering some of those series didn't exactly have very helpful decks. Still a bit too high in the ranking, but Ashwin doesn't deserve to be rated better than him until he replicates atleast some of that overseas form and nby not being shite when given a turning track to work with overseas.

 

[stephen]

To Kumble's credit, he became a very good overseas bowler in the second half of his career. Post 2002, his major overseas tours were:

2002 in Eng : 14 wickets in 3 games @36
2004 in Aus: 24 wickets in 3 games @ 29
2006 in SA: 14 wickets in 3 games @ 24
2007 in Eng: 14 wickets in 3 games @34
2008 in Aus: 20 wickets in 4 games @34

Rock solid overseas figures for an overseas spinner tbh, especially considering some of those series didn't exactly have very helpful decks. Still a bit too high in the ranking, but Ashwin doesn't deserve to be rated better than him until he replicates atleast some of that overseas form.

He's certainly the best touring spinner I've seen play in Australia in my lifetime.

 

[Burgey]

Wasim gets the MotM awards and the ultimate plaudits in certain places because flash impresses people more than ultimate quality, and he had loads of it. That's the beginning and end of it.

This is not a good post. Wasim Akram is one of the greatest cricketers who’s ever lived.

 

[Burgey]

To Kumble's credit, he became a very good overseas bowler in the second half of his career. Post 2002, his major overseas tours were:

2002 in Eng : 14 wickets in 3 games @36
2004 in Aus: 24 wickets in 3 games @ 29
2006 in SA: 14 wickets in 3 games @ 24
2007 in Eng: 14 wickets in 3 games @34
2008 in Aus: 20 wickets in 4 games @34

Rock solid overseas figures for an overseas spinner tbh, especially considering some of those series didn't exactly have very helpful decks. Still a bit too high in the ranking, but Ashwin doesn't deserve to be rated better than him until he replicates atleast some of that overseas form and nby not being shite when given a turning track to work with overseas.

Deadset Iron Man over here in 03/04

 

[morgieb]

To Kumble's credit, he became a very good overseas bowler in the second half of his career. Post 2002, his major overseas tours were:

2002 in Eng : 14 wickets in 3 games @36
2004 in Aus: 24 wickets in 3 games @ 29
2006 in SA: 14 wickets in 3 games @ 24
2007 in Eng: 14 wickets in 3 games @34
2008 in Aus: 20 wickets in 4 games @34

Rock solid overseas figures for an overseas spinner tbh, especially considering some of those series didn't exactly have very helpful decks. Still a bit too high in the ranking, but Ashwin doesn't deserve to be rated better than him until he replicates atleast some of that overseas form and nby not being shite when given a turning track to work with overseas.

Yeah I don't really agree with Ashwin over Kumble. The latter was a total workhorse that went from Ashwin mach I to a reliable threat everywhere. The former's away record remains rather weak and even against the better touring sides he hasn't seemed that much of a threat.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.18

James Anderson (England) 834

Quality Points: 684
Career Points: 150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP6po0smaes

Career: 2003-
Wickets: 564
Gold Performances: 6
7/43 vs. New Zealand at Nottingham 2008 (17.98)
6/17 vs. Pakistan at Nottingham 2010 (17.10)
5/65 vs. India at Lord's 2011 (15.00)
6/47 vs. Australia at Birmingham 2015 (16.17)
7/42 vs. West Indies at Lord's 2017 (16.38)
5/20 vs. India at Lord's 2018 (16.01)
Silver Performances: 14
Bronze Performances: 17

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 24.31 (26.84) 57.44 (55.85) 4.35 (rank 50)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2016-2018): 16.70 47.65 5.38 (rank 10)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.09 67.49 3.49 (rank 83)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.16 61.30 4.08 (rank 68)

So here he is. Finally. You have to hand it to Jimmy for ruffling so many Australian feathers when he went past Glenn McGrath. Posters can quite rightly have a moan about his away record and even his stats against quality opposition. But not many have noticed just how sensational Anderson has been in the last two years, in his mid-thirties, taking his wickets at 16.70 (adjusted from the original 18.28). It is this peak that gives him a place in the top 20, as well as his much publicized longevity. He has also bowled in more innings against quality opposition than any other bowler (190). His new-ball partner, Stuart Broad, is next with 160. This amount of bowling against strong teams in a batsmen-dominated era (notwithstanding more recent bowling friendly conditions) has definitely helped his average, adjusted from almost 27 to a very respectable 24.

As an aside, Anderson does benefit from playing in the 21st century, where the average RPW is 34. This RPW is global and not adjusted by host country. I have match conditions to help with this but in Anderson's case they don't reflect enough how he has benefited from English conditions. The global 21st century RPW will soon drop to 33 if tests continue to be as bowler-dominated as they have been in recent times. Anderson's adjusted average (as well as that of other 21st century bowlers) will then rise a little, thus dropping him down a couple of spots. But if he keeps his current standard until retirement then I see no reason why he won't remain in the top 20 and be thoroughly deserving of that honor.

 

[Bijed]

Wasim gets the MotM awards and the ultimate plaudits in certain places because flash impresses people more than ultimate quality, and he had loads of it. That's the beginning and end of it.

This is not a good post. Wasim Akram is one of the greatest cricketers who’s ever lived.

Tbf I think it's defensible to say that Wasim was a fantastic cricketer, but is nonetheless often rated above his excellent output due to his style. I don't think Starfighter was saying that he doesn't actually rate Wasim.