DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[Borges]

You can take 5/150 in a losing cause and get a high WPM but you won’t rate that highly on my PPI.

I think that provides a nice balance between the two extremes (Garner + three other greats vs Murali with minimal support).
between strong bowling teams hunting in packs, aiding better average and strike rate for each bowler, and winning more games
and the competition with too many other great bowlers reducing the wicket tally.

The metric as it is right now is fine; to me the rankings so far appear to be a fair reflection of the effectiveness of these bowlers.

 

[Days of Grace]

They're inextricably linked no matter how you slice it.

There's no doubt they are linked. Like I stated earlier, you only get maximum points if you take 5 wickets or more in an innings, so it suits lone-wolfs more.

However, match-winning performances against quality opposition do definitely help your PPI. Heath Streak is ranked at no.72 for basic wickets per innings, but he is only no.92 for PPI.

Conversely, Shoaib Akhtar is no.40 on PPI, but only no.66 on wickets per innings, which shows that when he did take a bag-full, it was hugely significant, in that he blew the opposition away and won the match for his team.

Having said that, average/strike rate is worth twice as much as PPI. In the end, to break into the upper echelons of my ratings system, you are going to need an extremely good average and strike-rate, together with a high PPI.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.21

Shaun Pollock (South Africa) 827

Quality Points: 717
Career Points: 110

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQxN7yvItJg

Career: 1995-2008
Wickets: 421
Gold Performances: 4
5/37 vs. Pakistan at Faisalabad 1997 (17.30)
7/87 vs. Australia at Adelaide 1998 (15.99)
6/30 vs. Sri Lanka at Cape Town 2001 (16.10)
6/56 vs. India at Bloemfontein 2001 (15.05)
Silver Performances: 10
Bronze Performances: 9

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.82 (23.12) 58.84 (57.85) 4.18 (rank 34)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1998-2001):17.14 49.14 5.48 (rank 14)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.76 64.67 3.85 (rank 43)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 22.69 58.52 4.09 (rank 44)

Shaun Pollock was a fairly quick bowler in his early years, forming a potent combination with Allan Donald. Indeed, his peak numbers from 1998-2001 make for great reading. It is that peak, together with a long career, that earns him a place just outside the top 20. He was not as penetrative overseas or in his later years, which means that his PPI is a little on the low side.

 

[smash84]

i had initially thought he might get penalized in this analysis, but i think this list places him about right.

I don't think he would make my top 20 list either

 

[ankitj]

Pollock had a pretty insane peak. Until around end of 2003 he had the best bowling average of any bowler with >200 wickets. No one noticed it as no one would associate that with Pollock. A record like that belonging to Wasim Akram or McGrath might have been more believable.

Here's my top 20. Will be fun to see how many of them make it to top 20 of this list:

Muttiah Muralitharn, Malcolm Marshall, Sydney Barnes, Richard Hadlee, Glenn McGrath
Curtly Ambrose, Shane Warne, Dale Steyn, Fred Trueman, Imran Khan
Bill O'Reilly, Allan Donald, Dennis Lillee, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram,
Clarrie Grimmett, Joel Garner, Michael Holding, Shaun Pollock, Ray Lindwall

So bottom 4 of my top 20 are going to miss out from DoG's top 20. Instead we will have Rabada, Ashwin, Kumble and Andersen.

 

[harsh.ag]

50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1998-2001):17.14 49.14 5.48 (rank 14)

There are 13 peaks better than this? Jeez.

 

[Migara]

No.21

Shaun Pollock (South Africa) 827

Quality Points: 717
Career Points: 110

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQxN7yvItJg

Career: 1995-2008
Wickets: 421
Gold Performances: 4
5/37 vs. Pakistan at Faisalabad 1997 (17.30)
7/87 vs. Australia at Adelaide 1998 (15.99)
6/30 vs. Sri Lanka at Cape Town 2001 (16.10)
6/56 vs. India at Bloemfontein 2001 (15.05)
Silver Performances: 10
Bronze Performances: 9

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.82 (23.12) 58.84 (57.85) 4.18 (rank 34)
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1998-2001):17.14 49.14 5.48 (rank 14)
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.76 64.67 3.85 (rank 43)
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 22.69 58.52 4.09 (rank 44)

Shaun Pollock was a fairly quick bowler in his early years, forming a potent combination with Allan Donald. Indeed, his peak numbers from 1998-2001 make for great reading. It is that peak, together with a long career, that earns him a place just outside the top 20. He was not as penetrative overseas or in his later years, which means that his PPI is a little on the low side.

Lot of Silver and Bronze performances, probably have driven him to the top. Expect this to be the case for McGrath, Murali and Marshall. Bowlers who put out consistent performances day and day out.

 

[Bolo]

Pollock had a pretty insane peak. Until around end of 2003 he had the best bowling average of any bowler with >200 wickets. No one noticed it as no one would associate that with Pollock. A record like that belonging to Wasim Akram or McGrath might have been more believable.



So bottom 4 of my top 20 are going to miss out from DoG's top 20. Instead we will have Rabada, Ashwin, Kumble and Andersen.

Maybe I would swap a name out from your top 20, but I might actually match it 100%.

Your four omissions (which I very much agree with) are all HTBs, with three of them having poor averages and one having a longevity issue.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There are 13 peaks better than this? Jeez.

Imran Waqar Barnes probably top 3

 

[Singh767]

Pollock had a pretty insane peak. Until around end of 2003 he had the best bowling average of any bowler with >200 wickets. No one noticed it as no one would associate that with Pollock. A record like that belonging to Wasim Akram or McGrath might have been more believable.



So bottom 4 of my top 20 are going to miss out from DoG's top 20. Instead we will have Rabada, Ashwin, Kumble and Andersen.

Anderson bashing here is ridiculous it turns into CricInfo comments sometime, if he was a bowler from the 50s no one would pat an eye-lid at his away stats. He has been good away from home for a long time now. He had a terrible start to his career, so what he has more than made up for it in recent years.
His longevity is very impressive and should be given more respect - considering the amount of stress seam bowlers put their body under. He is also is one of the best bowlers ever in their own home country ... Sachin and Kohli records against him are poor as well (random thing to say I know lol).
There is nothing wrong with him being in the top 20 - although he should not be in the top 10 I admit.

 

[trundler]

Speaking of condition reliant bowlers from the 50s, he should probably be closer to Bedser.

 

[ankitj]

Anderson bashing here is ridiculous it turns into CricInfo comments sometime, if he was a bowler from the 50s no one would pat an eye-lid at his away stats. He has been good away from home for a long time now. He had a terrible start to his career, so what he has more than made up for it in recent years.
His longevity is very impressive and should be given more respect - considering the amount of stress seam bowlers put their body under. He is also is one of the best bowlers ever in their own home country ... Sachin and Kohli records against him are poor as well (random thing to say I know lol).
There is nothing wrong with him being in the top 20 - although he should not be in the top 10 I admit.

Dude I didn't do any Andersen bashing.

 

[harsh.ag]

Can't decide if ankit is misspelling Anderson's name deliberately or not.

 

[ankitj]

Hehe, I don't know why I was doing it.

 

[Days of Grace]

Review

21 SM Pollock 827
22 J Garner 823
23 AK Davidson 820
24 CA Walsh 819
25 HMRKB Herath 814
26 VD Philander 806
27 JC Laker 798
28 Shoaib Akhtar 797
29 MA Holding 787
30 RA Jadeja 785
31 AV Bedser 784
32 HJ Tayfield 783
33 IT Botham 778
34 RJ Harris 774
35 GA Lohmann 774
36 Fazal Mahmood 772
37 M Ntini 755
38 MG Johnson 753
39 RGD Willis 749
40 Mohammad Asif 749
41 RR Lindwall 748
42 JA Snow 744
43 PM Pollock 743
44 AME Roberts 740
45 IR Bishop 738
46 CEH Croft 732
47 D Gough 731
48 DL Underwood 729
49 Yasir Shah 729
50 WW Hall 728
51 SCJ Broad 728
52 BS Chandrasekhar 728
53 N Kapil Dev 726
54 CJ McDermott 726
55 AR Caddick 725
56 JR Thomson 724
57 ARC Fraser 722
58 H Trumble 720
59 M Morkel 719
60 Harbhajan Singh 719
61 GP Swann 717
62 NAT Adcock 716
63 LR Gibbs 715
64 Mohammad Abbas 715
65 Saeed Ajmal 715
66 R Benaud 715
67 CTB Turner 708
68 MA Starc 708
69 JH Wardle 701
70 TM Alderman 700
71 JB Statham 700
72 GD McKenzie 700
73 SR Clark 699
74 JN Gillespie 698
75 MW Tate 694
76 FH Tyson 694
77 KR Miller 694
78 B Lee 685
79 MG Hughes 684
80 SCG MacGill 683
81 GF Lawson 682
82 Saqlain Mushtaq 681
83 BS Bedi 681
84 CL Cairns 674
85 TA Boult 672
86 JR Hazlewood 672
87 HH Streak 671
88 MJ Hoggard 670
89 WA Johnston 670
90 Z Khan 668
91 H Verity 667
92 N Wagner 667
93 SE Bond 665
94 WPUJC Vaas 663
95 PM Siddle 659
96 BA Reid 656
97 NM Lyon 655
98 GAR Lock 655
99 EAS Prasanna 655
100 Danish Kaneria 654

Only 13 points between no.21 and no.25. Herath could move up a couple of spots if he has a good final test.

At the bottom end of the table, Boult will most likely take over from Cairn's as New Zealand's second best-ever bowler.

No.20 might cause some rage...

 

[Starfighter]

Dennis Lillee? Or Ravi Ashwin?

 

[smash84]

Akram or Imran?

 

[Bolo]

Anyone other than Ashwin please. The longer he takes to show up, the greater the level of outrage when it happens.

Akram next to Pollock would make some sense. Virtually identical records

 

[smash84]

if rabada or ashwin make it ahead of akram there will be outrage for sure

 

[Bolo]

if rabada or ashwin make it ahead of akram there will be outrage for sure

Or Kumble or Anderson. But Ashwin more so. The others all have serious fans, but hardly anyone rates Ashwin around here, so everyone is gonna be grumpy.

I'm actually fully expecting him to beat Akram, and a number of others.