The evolution of LOIs in your lifetime

[stephen]

87 WCish - behind Jones, Boon, Marsh, Border and probably Veletta (in the team for his bowling)

92 - behind Jones, Boon, Marsh

mid to late 90s - behind Bevan, M Waugh, Ponting, Gilchrist, Lehmann

early 2000s - behind Ponting, Bevan, Gilchrist, Symonds, M Waugh, Hayden, Martin,

80s you're right, but in the 90s it's a stretch to say he was behind Jones, Boon, Marsh, Ponting, Gilchrist and Lehmann.

The only two batsmen consistently ahead of him through the 90s in the Aus ODI side were M Waugh and Bevan.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lehmann only really got good in international cricket post-2000 anyway so he should probably by in the "early-2000s" group

 

[jimmy101]

I actually prefer to bat without a helmet personally. Unless the bowler is rather quick, I just find that the grill screws with my vision & the helmet messes with my peripheral vision in general. I also don't like it how it creates an echo when you wear it.

In regards to Griegy's motorcycle helmet, I think it would have had a massive impact on his batting. There is little doubt that his balance would have been compromised, although he would have been pretty safe had one of Lillee's bouncers crashed into it.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Lehmann only really got good in international cricket post-2000 anyway so he should probably by in the "early-2000s" group

Fair enough. A - I'm a Kiwi so haven't followed heaps of Aussie cricket and B - it was a long time ago.

I still have bad memories of Michael Bevan beating us whenever we looked likely to beat your lot

 

[Starfighter]

I actually prefer to bat without a helmet personally. Unless the bowler is rather quick, I just find that the grill screws with my vision & the helmet messes with my peripheral vision in general. I also don't like it how it creates an echo when you wear it.

I gave up wearing a helmet a couple of years ago. No-one really bowls much over 100 km/h in 5th grade so there's little risk. The main thing you've got to be careful of is the beamer. I haven't had a sufficiently cloudy day to do the Herbert Sutcliffe no-cap look yet.

In regards to Griegy's motorcycle helmet, I think it would have had a massive impact on his batting. There is little doubt that his balance would have been compromised, although he would have been pretty safe had one of Lillee's bouncers crashed into it.

Had?

 

[jimmy101]

I gave up wearing a helmet a couple of years ago. No-one really bowls much over 100 km/h in 5th grade so there's little risk. The main thing you've got to be careful of is the beamer. I haven't had a sufficiently cloudy day to do the Herbert Sutcliffe no-cap look yet.


Had?

Yeah, I'll take off my helmet at the first available opportunity. When facing medium pacers or spinners it comes straight off. A lot of the time it's too freaking hot to wear it anyway. My side (Druids CC) plays in Div 1 Melbourne West so sometimes you will actually get a tearaway quick who wants to kill you.


Ouch. Brutal clip. Greigy's helmet held up well though.

 

[Bolo]

Even at the time S.Waugh wasn't considered a particularly special ODI bat. He'd probably have had much better stats if he batted 3 or even 4 but he pretty much never moved above 5.



wow no. Bevan finished in 2003 (might have played a few games in 2004). Kohli started in 2008. That 5 year period probably saw the biggest change in ODI batting conditions. Equating them because "in the 2000s" is heavy-handed.

I don't really care to venture into whatever Stephen is doing with his adjusted stats but suggesting that Bevan and Kohli's careers overlapped in any significant manner in relation to the evolution of ODI batting is ridiculous

232 matches. 110 in the 2000s. Close to half.

I don't think you are following what he's saying if you are talking about overlap. It's adjustment by decade. Check his parameters again

 

[TheJediBrah]

I gave up wearing a helmet a couple of years ago. No-one really bowls much over 100 km/h in 5th grade so there's little risk. The main thing you've got to be careful of is the beamer. I haven't had a sufficiently cloudy day to do the Herbert Sutcliffe no-cap look yet.


Had?

Helmets made compulsory to fast bowlers in our comp recently. Even for keepers up to the stumps too I think. Post-Hughes I think. It's nuts making keepers where helmets though.

232 matches. 110 in the 2000s. Close to half.

You've completely missed what I said.

 

[Migara]

I gave up wearing a helmet a couple of years ago. No-one really bowls much over 100 km/h in 5th grade so there's little risk. The main thing you've got to be careful of is the beamer. I haven't had a sufficiently cloudy day to do the Herbert Sutcliffe no-cap look yet.

That is till you top edge your pull or sweep right on to you teeth. Three missing teeth is extremely painful, disfiguring and extremely expensive at orthodontist.

 

[Starfighter]

That is till you top edge your pull or sweep right on to you teeth. Three missing teeth is extremely painful, disfiguring and extremely expensive at orthodontist.

Bad luck, but you should probably work on your batting then.

 

[Migara]

Bad luck, but you should probably work on your batting then.

That was common when I was bowling though. I used to et insane amounts of bounce on my leg breaks and top spins. Quite a number of sweeps ended up in air, or hitting the batsman's body. The crap pitches we played on Division 3 in SL did not help either.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bad luck, but you should probably work on your batting then.

Well then you'll have plenty of time to work on your batting what with all the dates you won't be getting because of your messed up face

edit: I mean that if the ball knocks your teeth out and **** it will mess up ur face, not saying you have a messed up face already . . .

 

[jimmy101]

That is till you top edge your pull or sweep right on to you teeth. Three missing teeth is extremely painful, disfiguring and extremely expensive at orthodontist.

Can vouch for this. Had my front three teeth knocked out a few years ago. Was a non-cricketing related incident though. Before I eventually got my false teeth made up let's just say the dates were few and far between

 

[quincywagstaff]

From an Australian perspective, a big turning point was the Sri Lankan side that toured here in 1995/96 and the impact of Kaluwitharana and Jayasuriya.

In the previous decade or so, while Australia’s ODI cricket had generally been very successful (sans 1992 WC) it was of a fairly attritional and conservative style (mastered under Border/Simpson). It was largely based around sensible batting starts in the first 15 overs with responsible openers like Marsh/Boon/Taylor and only really breaking out in aggression in the final 10 overs. Similarly, the bowling wasn’t about getting wickets but intelligent bowling of medium pacers like O’Donnell & S Waugh with their slower balls and the restrictive off-spin of the likes of Peter Taylor.

Therefore, Sri Lanka’s risk-taking with two aggressive openers who were prepared to hit over the infield in the first 15 overs was like a breath of fresh air to Oz cricket fans and commentators (as illustrated by Tony Grieg’s commentary excitement over them) and made Australia’s patented style seemed old-fashioned. And while Australia went on to win that summer’s one-day series, Sri Lanka won the WC and the change in ODI cricket was set.

Australia took a while to adjust as they were a genuinely ordinary ODI side in the 18 months post-96WC with Mark Taylor as an opener becoming an out-of-form anachronism. They took a while to get going under S Waugh but with the arrival of Gilchrist as opener and winning the 1999 WC, Australia became an ultra-aggressive batting lineup which they’ve maintained the mindset of to this day.

 

[stephen]

As a kid Peter Taylor's bowling really captured my imagination. I loved everything about it, from his weird/ awesome skipping, arms everywhere but elegant action to the fact that unlike every other bowler on show he didn't get wickets by bowling quickly, he out thought his opponents and bamboozled them off the pitch (and in the air, though my tv wasn't large enough to properly appreciate that).

But yeah, Australia's ODI rule was forged in the flames of the devastating loss to Sri Lanka in 96. We learned and adjusted. It was really the first time I remember us making significant changes in personnel between the test and ODI sides with Raptor m Taylor given the flick, Gilly picked and promoted up the order over Healy (who until that point was an excellent keeper- bat) and Bevan playing a huge role.

It was during that time the Australia A side played in a 4 team tournament and outplayed England and Zimbabwe for a spot in the finals which the selectors doctored by picking Reiffel as twelfth man for Australia so he couldn't play for Australia A. That Australia A side had players like Ponting and Hayden in it, so they were a world class side.

 

[Migara]

The other difference the 96 WC brought about was aggressive spin bowling Murali, Kumble and Warne. It set a trend for wrist spinners and unorthodox finger spinners to prosper. Saqlain, Hogg, Ajmal, Ashwin, Mendis, Randiv, Chahal, Kuldeep, Shadab, Mujeeb and Rashid Khan are players who kept / keeping the standard. In every team, an attacking spinner has become a must.

 

[stephen]

The other difference the 96 WC brought about was aggressive spin bowling Murali, Kumble and Warne. It set a trend for wrist spinners and unorthodox finger spinners to prosper. Saqlain, Hogg, Ajmal, Ashwin, Mendis, Randiv, Chahal, Kuldeep, Shadab, Mujeeb and Rashid Khan are players who kept / keeping the standard. In every team, an attacking spinner has become a must.

Yeah gone are the days of spinners just being used to contain in the middle overs. My favourite of those to watch outside the big 3 is Hogg. Such a likeable bloke and he really set the tone for modern wrist spinners needing a good wrong 'un to succeed.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hogg came out of nowhere in 2003. I don't think many people thought he would be as good an ODI bowler as he turned out to be.

 

[CricAddict]

Just my perspective on the ODI batting pioneers. Please correct/add.

Viv Richards started the evolution of ODIs from a drab affair to slowly increasing the overall strike rates with his whirlwind batting in middle and end overs after some consolidation by Greenidge and Haynes.Since then, ODIs generally used to be consolidation till 40 overs and hitting out in last 10 overs.

Michael Bevan brought out the art of closing out innings in the 90s after which people like Dhoni and other finishers started coming out.

Sanath Jayasuriya redefined batting in the first 10 overs post which hitting changed to first 15 overs + last 10 overs with just the middle 25 overs being drab. Good players in the same mould such as Gilchrist started sprouting out.

Sachin Tendulkar since becoming an opener brought out batting for long periods at good strike rate consistently throughout the innings after which the best batsmen in each team started opening and started to aim at playing through the full 50 overs.

Eoin Morgan and the English team have removed "Drab" from the middle 25 overs as well with hitters from the start till the end with good allrounders and brought the norms of ODI scores to 320 plus.

Virat Kohli has brought it to another level now encompassing all of hitting from ball one, hitting in the middle overs and finishing the innings at amazing consistency right now.

 

[Migara]

Yeah gone are the days of spinners just being used to contain in the middle overs. My favourite of those to watch outside the big 3 is Hogg. Such a likeable bloke and he really set the tone for modern wrist spinners needing a good wrong 'un to succeed.

Hogg was unfortunate to be around Warne and MacGill. Born in another country, we would have been looking at a 400 test wicket material, and a valuable bowling all rounder who could average 25 with the bat.