DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[h_hurricane]

Big Bird was as good as any bowler in history. His away average of 19 (!!) is better than any modern bowler who played for a significant period of time and probably likelier any one else to get a miserly 3 wicket haul. He was great against all teams every where. Those stats do not lie.

Garner is probably penalized for no gold performances which is fair enough in a statistical analysis.

 

[smash84]

Top job DoG, am loving this thread.

One of the best threads on CW in a while IMO

 

[smash84]

Big Bird was as good as any bowler in history. His away average of 19 (!!) is better than any modern bowler who played for a significant period of time and probably likelier any one else to get a miserly 3 wicket haul. He was great against all teams every where. Those stats do not lie.

Garner is probably penalized for no gold performances which is fair enough in a statistical analysis.

Well, at this level we are talking razor thin margins. I;d take Marshall over Garner any day.

 

[h_hurricane]

Well, at this level we are talking razor thin margins. I;d take Marshall over Garner any day.

Me too. If I could have both, nothing like it

 

[Cabinet96]

Do people still think Rabada is gonna be in it? Not sure a place in the top 20 is more likely than a place just outside the top 100 tbh.

 

[h_hurricane]

Of course, Lillee played only a single test in the W.I., and that with injury, whereas Walsh played 25 in Australia.





As an aside, Lillee did take 23 wickets at 28.39 in five W.S.C. Supertests in W.I., but it's his own fault that that is not reflected in his career stats.

True. He did play super tests in WI and did reasonably well( not as good as his career average, could be down to flat pitches). The point is, how unproven he is on pitches other than Down Under and England(Super tests figures not withstanding). He played a sum total of 5 tests on other countries (6 wickets at an average of 90). We are talking about a whole career here.

All said and done, he is a great bowler but nowhere near the complete bowler he is called out by many. The holes in his career are less severely scrutinized when compared to several other bowlers.

 

[trundler]

You aren't applying any context to it though. Trueman, Lindwall, Bedser, they all rarely played outside of Australia and England. Plus Lillee was severely injured in those matches. Those figures are as good as useless. His reputation is more based on his ability to take crucial wickets and versatility of skill. Not really his fault he didn't get to play a lot in Asia.

 

[Bolo]

Do people still think Rabada is gonna be in it? Not sure a place in the top 20 is more likely than a place just outside the top 100 tbh.

He's still coming. We've just seen Jadeja and Davidson, with very comparable but inferior records according to the parameters of the ranking. He's a bit of a HTB with a 3 year career, so I don't like his ranking being so high, but I have no doubt he will have earned it a couple of years from now.

True. He did play super tests in WI and did reasonably well( not as good as his career average, could be down to flat pitches). The point is, how unproven he is on pitches other than Down Under and England(Super tests figures not withstanding). He played a sum total of 5 tests on other countries (6 wickets at an average of 90). We are talking about a whole career here.

All said and done, he is a great bowler but nowhere near the complete bowler he is called out by many. The holes in his career are less severely scrutinized when compared to several other bowlers.

When people talk about him being a complete bowler they are referring to his range of skills. His record is obviously a long way from complete.

 

[bagapath]

IIRC Garner is one of those rare bowlers who never went wicketless in a game despite bowling in 50+ matches. Am i right, DoG?

 

[ankitj]

IIRC Garner is one of those rare bowlers who never went wicketless in a game despite bowling in 50+ matches. Am i right, DoG?

Indeed.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

 

[AndrewB]

IIRC Garner is one of those rare bowlers who never went wicketless in a game despite bowling in 50+ matches. Am i right, DoG?

Fred Trueman is the other one.

 

[Burgey]

TBF I have taken a wicket in every test match I've played as well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's a clump of excellent WI bowlers we are seeing. All of them are probably landing below where most readers would rank them more subjectively. Getting dragged down due to having to compete with each other for wickets.

Within the bounds of this analysis it's better to be a lone gun. PPI ends up too low when you have competition. See the difference between Herath (average 28) and the recent WI players (average low 20s).

I think any form of statistical analysis is going to favour lone guns if it gives a high weight to wpm (whether directly or indirectly and not corresponding exactly as done here through individual innings). Pack bowlers should have lower averages to counterbalance this, but I don't think the affect will be enough to counterbalance the WPM given how important the metric is and the need to give it it's due in all circumstances, not just this one.

Definitely. Wpm shouldn't really be a metric at all in this sort of analysis. It doesn't really reflect a bowler's ability or skills so much as how much many overs they bowled/how good the other bowlers in the team were.

 

[Days of Grace]

PPI is more advanced than WPM. A bowler’s performance (points per innings) takes in runs per wicket, balls per wicket, conditions, opposition, result, etc.

True, you lose points if you take less than 5 wickets and it favors bowlers who take a lot of 5-fers but nonetheless it is not a straight WPM analysis.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Tbf it's probably the first legitimate issue that's come out of this system so far (punishing bowlers from strong teams like the Windies, rewarding bowlers who bowl a lot in weak teams eg. Herath)

 

[Starfighter]

Tbf it's probably the first legitimate issue that's come out of this system so far (punishing bowlers from strong teams like the Windies, rewarding bowlers who bowl a lot in weak teams eg. Herath)

Perhaps we should have a recent argument again

 

[Victor Ian]

TBF I have taken a wicket in every test match I've played as well.

TBF you haven't. 0/0 is undefined. In simpler terms your calculator would just say error. This does not however diminish your greatness.

 

[TheJediBrah]

TBF I have taken a wicket in every test match I've played as well.

I'd say that you've gone wicketless in every test match you've played

 

[Burgey]

That's because, being Victorian, you're naturally pessimistic owing to the England-like climate and the shithole which passes for your State capital.

 

[Burgey]

Melbourne: Not quite as bad as Brisbane.